Experience with SUN Direct HD DTH

[tomythomas01]

Updated on 16th June 2010.
All the issues with Sun HD is sorted out after the last STB firmware upgrade by Sun (around 3 months ago). Out of 7 channels 5 Channels are of excellent video quality, true 1080i. 2 channels Sun and Colors are of 4:3 aspect ratio and is an issue which is expected.
I have moved my 40" X (Signature series Sony TV to bedroom and replaced it with new 52" Sony KDL-52NX800. Even in 52" the HD channel picture quality is superb and the Dolby 5.1 surround connected through Denon 2310 is up to my expectation. But Sun failed to give FIfa 10 in HD . So forced to look elsewhere.

Following is my initial post.
Yesterday 11:00PM I got the connection. So the following is a couple of hours experience and will be updated in the coming days.
I could successfully connect through Denon 2310 today, but the same message continues "cable not connected", " service not defined properly" so the handshaking time is sometime extends beyond 10sec



STB Model number corrected Samsung DSB5090R

I thought of sharing my experience on Sun HD which may help those who are looking for DTH HD experience. Even though we are expecting other DTH providers to bring HD ASFIK SUN Direct the only HD service available in India.

It needs a much bigger Dish (double of Tata Sky+ dish I have) and new Settop box – Samsung DBS-5090R . Box comes with a Cheap HDMI cable, no other cables (no RCA cables / IEC cables) supplied.
There are 7 HD Channels.
1. Discovery HD –Good clarity at 1080i , Dolby 5.1 Audio
2. NGC HD – 1080i , True HD , Dolby 5.1 Audio
3. Colors HD – It is scrambled now, so no idea
4. Sun TV HD - Most of it is upscaled video (576P to 1080i in the studio), nothing exciting here.
5. Tamil Movies HD – Excellent HD quality (1080i). I did not expect this quality before taking the connection for movie channel, my doubt was what HD source will they use for regional movies!
6. Telugu Movies HD – Same quality as Tamil Movies HD – excellent
7. Test HD channel - Scrambled at present

SD (576P) channels – not worth even after upscaling to 1080P or i, not better than Tata Sky + (576i) in quality. There is one more issue, HD channels are 16:9 where as SD Channels are 4:3. Since both coming from the same source we need to keep on changing the TV settings for Wide Zoom/ Full when you switch over between HD to SD. So practically my usage of Sun Direct HD is limited to HD channels only, and switch over to Tata Sky+ for SD channels , switching over and controlling the corresponding devices is very easy task (with single click) thanks to Logitech Harmony 900 remote.

Major Issues with Sun HD.
1. Switching over between two HD channels takes sometime more than 10 seconds which is not acceptable by any standards  There is some handshaking issue. My TV (Sonly Signature series, X) complains there is no cable connected for more than 8 seconds, then appears a message “ Service not defined fully” and the picture takes a couple of seconds more to appear. So you dare not attempt channel surfing 
2. When HDMI out is Connected to Denon 2310 (known as the best amp under 1Lakhs among Audio Gurus), it displaying all the menus and other details but no video from SUN, audio is fine. TV goes to a blue screen for any Sun channels. So there is some real issue with the HDMI handshaking from SUN HD box. I have another 5 sources for HD (PS3, WD-Live, Apple MAC etc …) which do not have any issues with either TV or Amp
There is some similar report about Sky HD (UK) with Denon 2310 , some HDCP issue where Denon follows exactly HDMI 1.3a standards and the SKY HD faults on the full compliance.

If you any one of you have faced similar issues please let me know.

In summary there are so many issues with DTH HD in India as of now. It is no wonder other DTH providers are keeping quiet on HD. As of now It is meant only for early adopters of tech who are ready to spend hours together solving these issues themselves. It is supposed to be a mature and main stream technology abroad, so I wonder why our DTH providers are not getting it right before launching the service and charging a premium.

Regards,
Tomy

Update from Denon on this issue.

"A set top receiver connected to an A/V receiver via HDMI may have trouble passing video signals through the A/V receiver even though a direct connection to the display seems to work fine. This has to do with the HDMI HDCP protocol being sent and received and the authentication process. This is not a fault of the receiver. Recently set top box manufacturers have become aware of this issue. It has been found that the U-code information appears to be the problem which is part of Annex A of the repeater conformity specifications of the HDMI protocol. Some set top receiver manufacturers have already implemented firmware changes to their units while others are in the process of updating their units. If a set top receiver being used is having problems passing HDMI video signal through an A/V receiver, contact the manufacturer of the set top receiver to see if an update is available. "

 

[RockingIndian]

Thanks for providing the review of Sun Direct HD service. I am interested in why HD reception is more difficult than SD reception, apart from requiring greater bandwidth. A 10 sec delay seems to be indicative of a problem with the decoding equipment. Any input on this would be appreciated.

 

[tomythomas01]

Thanks for providing the review of Sun Direct HD service. I am interested in why HD reception is more difficult than SD reception, apart from requiring greater bandwidth. A 10 sec delay seems to be indicative of a problem with the decoding equipment. Any input on this would be appreciated.

It is an issue with the HDMI / HDCP protocol implementation of STB which exhibits as a handshaking issue. Decoding is done within the Sun STB only. Decoding is also taking lot more time to start compared to SD video. It behaves same way whether connected directly to TV HDMI or Denon AVR2310 HDMI interface. Denon acknowledged this is an issue with the STB manufacturer's equipment. I firmly believe it since the same amp does not have any issue with other HD sources PS3, Apple MAC Mini, WD-Live, Synology Diskstation 107+ NAS acting as a DLNA server, Philips DVD player with HDMI . This issue is widely reported in various AVR forums during last year with Sky HD.
TV - Sony KLV-40X series (Sony signature series), their flagship product.

Regards,
Tomy

 

[RockingIndian]

Thanks, got it now. Seeing that the problem is with the STB, is it possible to use a STB which is different from the one provided by the service provider?

 

[javajanu]

I was recently updated my home theatre system with Sony bravia 40', sony bd-360 and onkyo 6100. I have Tata Sky and wanted to move to a HD dth. I was searching google for getting sun direct hd review as it is the only HD dth provider in India. The review given by Tomy is much helpful for my decision. I am going to defer my decision to move sun direct HD to see how other dth providers react on HD broad casting. Meanwhile, I would like to move atleast a component video quality video and stero sound. As of now, BIG, AirTel and sun direct are providing component video. Feedback on component video quality on BIG, AirTel and sun direct is much appreciated. Janakiraman.

 

[tomythomas01]

I was recently updated my home theatre system with Sony bravia 40', sony bd-360 and onkyo 6100.
I have Tata Sky and wanted to move to a HD dth. I was searching google for getting sun direct hd review as it is the only HD dth provider in India. The review given by Tomy is much helpful for my decision. I am going to defer my decision to move sun direct HD to see how other dth providers react on HD broad casting.

Meanwhile, I would like to move atleast a component video quality video and stero sound. As of now, BIG, AirTel and sun direct are providing component video.

Feedback on component video quality on BIG, AirTel and sun direct is much appreciated.


Janakiraman.

I am using TATA sky+ with component video output. The video quality is much better than plain Tata sky where the STB did not have component output. The main difference is in its vivid colors which adds to over all appeal. Video quality varies between channels / source material. But SD channels in Sun DTH does not have that visual appeal even with HDMI HD video is excellent except upscaled video which we can make out immediately.
Only Blue ray gives noticeably better picture with 1080P compared to 1080i/720P of SUN Discovery HD / NGC HD/ regional movies HD.

I will post some photos during this weekends showing the exact message comes in TV with Sun HD. It is something like "Cable not connected " displays upto 10sec for some HD channels and momentarily it displays the "service not defined fully" . Within 2 sec the picture will appear. This happens only with HD channels not SD channels.
Regards,
Tomy

 

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[javajanu]

Thanks Tony.I am also thinking the same to upgrade to Tata Sky plus as tata sky gives good customer service(I never called customer service for the past 3 years for any issues).I have only one thing bothering my mind. Please correct me if I am wrong. Component video offers upto 720p quality and supports 16:9 aspect ratio. Tatasky+, BIG and Airtel are giving component videos. I see only one difference using tatasky+ and BIG/AirTel. BIG/AirTel claims that they transmit MPEG4 while tatasky+ is not.Is there any picture quality difference?Please upload photos. I like to see those.

 

[tomythomas01]

Thanks Tony.

I am also thinking the same to upgrade to Tata Sky plus as tata sky gives good customer service(I never called customer service for the past 3 years for any issues).
I have only one thing bothering my mind. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Component video offers upto 720p quality and supports 16:9 aspect ratio.
Tatasky+, BIG and Airtel are giving component videos. I see only one difference using tatasky+ and BIG/AirTel. BIG/AirTel claims that they transmit MPEG4 while tatasky+ is not.

Is there any picture quality difference?

Please upload photos. I like to see those.

Component video output of these STBs gives 576P max for Sun Direct and 576i for Tata Sky+. Do not go by the i and P, video quality of Tata Sky+ is better for the same channel with more vivid colors. P is basically upscaled by STB only with poor algorithms

Aspect ratio does not depend on resolution. It depends on the aspect ratio of the source they like to select for transmission. Again resolution does not depend on aspect ratio either. For ex: old movies like "Gone with Wind" comes in Blue ray with 1080P resolution but with an aspect ratio of 4:3.

4:3 can be stretched to fill your 16:9 screen in many ways. In Sony TV you can select Full, Wide, Wide Zoom and Zoom to fill the screen. But Wide Zoom gives the best result by leaving the center of the picture frame as it is (where most of the action takes place) and stretches both sides to give a better feel. You can still make out the issue when the subject of interest moves to either side from center. Other TVs have similar features but the terminologies used may be different.

MPEG4 gives better compression for the same video compared to MPEG2 video. The additional band width saved can be used to enhance the picture quality or squeeze more channels in the same bandwidth / transponder of the KU band Satellite. All MPEG4 providers in India is using the addition bandwidth not to enhance picture quality but squeeze more channels so that they can save some money instead of hiring more transponder. So advertising MPEG4 for better picture quality is just a marketing gimmick, end user is not gaining anything.

This is in direct contrast to DVD (4.7Gbit/ 9G approx) uses MPEG2 video but Bluray uses MPEG4 Part 10 (H.264/ AVC) to get addition resolutions upto 1080P (with 25/50GB disc).
Hope this clarifies your doubt.

Regards,
Tomy

 

[y2s]

where did you get the harmony 900?

 

[tomythomas01]

where did you get the harmony 900?

I bought Logitech Harmony 900 from US for $399/-. It is really expensive but you can get much cheaper Harmony remote with very similar functionality minus RF. I have so many gadgets accumulated over years and an extensive Dual band wireless DLNA network at home (Synology Diskstation is the central server, visit Synology America Corp. - NEW NAS Experience - for more details) so I need to have a single remote to control the whole thing. I always felt it is worth the price asking for since I have not seen any other remotes which is programmable with least effort and very easy to hold and use. As you know It has a GUI with customizale logos using touch controls for all your DTH Channels as well as hardkeys and I am yet to find any issues in controlling any activities we come across. Your families members need not be tech saavy and can be fully ignorant about all the underlying equipments and interconnections and the switching between them.

There is one remote apps with an IR dongle for iPhone / iPod Touch which is much cheaper ($80/-) but it is definitely not a substitute for Harmony. Infact my first universal remote was such an application running over a iPaq Pocket PC (now Windows Mobile) in 2000. Again there are so may other universal remotes similar to Harmony for very high end home Theatre Room applications which will cost you much more than Harmony.

I will upload some photots during this weekend.
Regards,
Tomy