about that 123 agreement...

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An intresting columnist article from the daily pioneer on this agreement

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pasting here in case the URL times out

Accepting US suzerainty

Satish Chandra
Monday 30th July 2007

The 123 Agreement, along with the Hyde Act, will adversely affect the evolution of India's nuclear weapon capability. It is the precursor to several moves by the UPA Government that will enhance India's dependency on the US and take it into the American camp, making us a client state

While there can be no denying that in today's unipolar world India must try and cultivate close ties with the United States, equally, every patriotic Indian would expect that this endeavour should in no way jeopardise national interest or undermine national sovereignty.


With the nuclear deal on the verge of being concluded we are at a defining moment in India-US relations. The deal will not only cripple India's strategic deterrent and erode its sovereignty but will also reduce it to a client state of the US by providing the latter with requisite leverages to ensure that it never steps out of line.


No matter what gloss the UPA Government puts upon the 123 Agreement, the separation plan agreed to by it will adversely affect the evolution of India's nuclear weapon capability as will the Hyde Act which is the framework legislation under which the 123 Agreement is to be operated. The Hyde Act, moreover, without permitting India the benefit of full civil nuclear cooperation, as envisaged in the July 18, 2005 understanding, makes US cooperation conditional on many humiliating provisions restricting the independence of Indian foreign policy and requiring a rigorous oversight of its nuclear programme, both civilian and military. The Hyde Act also provides that India remains under constant threat of termination of cooperation if in the US assessment it has not lived up to its commitments.


Despite the groundswell of opposition to the nuclear deal in the country, the Government is clearly determined to go ahead with it. It is unfortunate that towards this end it has not hesitated to engage in an information war against its own citizens by keeping the text of the 123 Agreement secret while at the same time engaging in selective briefings designed to project it in a favourable light.


The 123 Agreement is the precursor to and, indeed, the fulcrum around which the Government is actively considering several moves that will enhance India's dependency on the US and take it irrevocably into the US camp. Some of these are an Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA), more frequent exercises with the US and allied military forces, increased US arms purchase arrangements, participation in the US-sponsored Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI), active support to a US-sponsored Fissile Material Cut Off Treaty (FMCT), etc.


In mid July Gen Kohler, Director of the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency, and Admiral Wieringa, while in India reportedly finalised the text of an ACSA which now awaits Cabinet Committee on Security approval. It has been argued that ACSA is merely an arrangement to facilitate mutual logistic support during military exercises. This is too simplistic a projection. The fact is that ACSA provides US combatant commanders the means to acquire logistic support from our armed forces during training, exercises and military operations.


The US has concluded nearly 80 such agreements mainly with NATO and allied countries. While such agreements do not theoretically commit the host country to military action the very act of concluding them makes such countries aligned to the US and a party to its actions. Thus, our hosting, the USS Nimitz at our ports in early July while in active operation in connection with the Iraq situation makes us a party to US actions in that country.


The underlying philosophy of these agreements is to enhance the rapid deployment capability of US forces into theatres far removed from their bases. It is relevant to recall that Mr Douglas Feith, the former US Under Secretary of Defence, publicly indicated in December 2003 that the rapid deployability of US forces required that they "must be able to move smoothly into, through, and out of host nations" and that for this purpose the US was inter alia "putting in place so-called cross servicing agreements so that we can rapidly reimburse countries for support they provide to our military operations."


India's signing of ACSA will, therefore, mark its formal entry into the US sphere of influence and signal its willingness to allow itself to be used to usher in the American century in Asia. It is ironical that this step would be undertaken by a leadership, tracing its roots to the Nehru-Gandhi family for which non-alignment was an article of faith, and by a Government relying for its survival on the Communists to whom the US is an anathema.


This craven alignment with the US even fails the test of realpolitik as the US has conferred no special benefits on India, befitting a country which it says it wants to help get great power status, such as support for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, recognition as a nuclear weapon state, or even an invitation to participate in the multi-nation naval anti terror task force in the Arabian Sea of which Pakistan has long been a member.


The conclusion of ACSA will inevitably lead to an increase, both quantitative and qualitative, in India's military exercises with the US which have for sometime been on an upward spiral. This, coupled with the alacrity with which we participated in trilateral exercises in April with the US and Japan, and have agreed to the US-Japan-Australia- Singapore-India exercises, taken together with our hesitation to participate in trilateral exercises with China and Russia and our lukewarm approach to the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, will fuel suspicions that we have opted to cast our lot with the US. There is nothing per se wrong with engaging in military exercises with the US but if the scale and nature of these exercises is out of all proportion with those conducted with other countries it will naturally place in doubt our bona fide as an independent player in the region.


The grease lubricating the nuclear deal is the prospect of multi-billion-dollar contracts not just for nuclear reactors but also for arms purchases. Some of the major deals being oriented towards the US are:


[*]$ 10 billion contract for 126 multi role combat aircraft;
[*]$ 900 million contract for 127 helicopters for the Army Aviation Corp;
[*]Multi-billion dollar contracts for over 200 radars;
[*]$ 2 billion to $ 3 billion contract for 8 to 16 long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft;
[*]$ 2 billion to $ 3 billion contract for equipment to promote network centricity in the Armed Forces; and,
[*]$ 2 billion contract for 400 artillery guns.
[/list]

In considering the US for such massive defence orders, the Government appears to have totally discounted factors of cost, compatibility and, most important, reliability of supplies. Indeed, the US proclivity to suspend supplies at the drop of a hat on the flimsiest of excuses should have made it a non-starter for consideration for such contracts. Moreover, diversion of such orders from our traditional supplier, namely Russia, will impinge adversely on our ties with it and prompt it to find a new market in Pakistan.


It is on the cards that India will, as required under the Hyde Act, join the PSI which it has long been averse to, as well as abide by the policies of the Australia Group and the Wassenar Arrangements without enjoying the benefits of membership. Similarly, though India traditionally only favours a FMCT with an international and effective verification mechanism, under the weight of the Hyde Act, which requires it to work "actively" with the US for early conclusion of this Treaty, it is moving towards modifying its position and going along with the US which is against the Indian position and favours verification through national technical means.


Acceptance of the US position is not in the national interest as it will deprive India of a place at the high table in operationalisation of the FMCT that would, for all practical purposes, be in the hands of the US as the country with the most advanced national technical means. An early conclusion of the FMCT would also not serve India's interest as it requires time to built up adequate stocks of fissile material for its strategic deterrent.


It would be evident from the foregoing that the 123 and associated agreements, which will entail the outgo of billions of dollars, far from promoting India's emergence as a great power, will see it relegated to the status of a subsidiary state under US suzerainty. While this, of course, constitutes the mother of all follies on the part of our leadership it is also a failure of the entire political class which should have done much more to avert it.
 
Whenever I hear words like suzerainty, hegemony, 'client state' etc, I start having doubts about the impartiality of the person speaking. These words appear 'red' to me. If someone is partial, they should say so. They should not hide their partiality under the guise of national security. These comments are in relation to the article above.

The 'deal' and opposition in India
The Alliance of Utterly Nonsensical Parties (UNPA - which has been formed by three losers - Jayalalitha, Chandrababu Naidu and Mulayam Singh Yadav after the electorate kicked them out), the Left and the NDA have consistently blocked any good deed that the government is trying to achieve while supporting virtually every bad one. They have continued this with their opposition to the Indo-US Nuclear Agreement.

Other opposition
From whatever appeared in the papers from time to time, the reaction of anti-India lobbyists in Washington and international reaction to this agreement, I have always thought that in some way this is good for India.
Today's Times of India confirms that.

NAM and India
All the crap about NAM (Non-Aligned Movement) is not worth anything. It is time to bury it. I think that countries that are still part of the movement must be laughing behind India's back after seeing that political parties in India still believe in such a thing. If NAM is such a success and all the countries that are part of it respect India and care our friends, I hope that they vote in India's favour when we try to get a permanent seat on the UNSC.

When Nehru started the movement and went on about Panchsheel, he failed to mention that Non-Alignment meant 'a distinct pro-Soviet tilt' vis-a-vis the US. This is what has alarmed US over the past 60 years. And this was the reason Nixon and Kissinger threw the dice from Pakistan's side during 1971. A India-China-Soviet alliance would have been a diplomatic and military disaster for the US.

What now
Forget about the opposition within US. It is based on the fact (and it is a fact) that India is getting too much out of the deal. Indian political parties and some commentators are harping on two completely different points:
1. Deal is off if India conducts a nuclear test:
In 1998, Vajpayee told India that we have done all the tests that were required to maintain a minimum deterrence and no further tests are required. When this statement is shown to the BJP, they play the 'what if' game. What if we need to conduct a nuclear test? After the French tests of the early nineties, no established nuclear power has conducted a real nuclear test. Virtual tests (using super computers) are the norm and we too should do the same. If we do not have sufficient data, it means that the scientists lied to Vajpayee and Vajpayee, in turn, lied to the country. So all of them should be hauled over the coals.

2. Deal compromises India's ability to conduct its own Foreign Policy -
The US is edgy about Iran and wants India to support it in whatever action it may take against it. India has managed to snub US by not sending troops to Iraq. How difficult is it going to be to tell US that the Iran thing is a bit too much?

This deal is good for India and will pass through. All the opposition is just posturing. India will continue to maintain relations with Russia, Pakistan and China and nothing is going to change. The only thing that is going to happen is that the world is going to look at us in envy because this is the first and probably the last time the US lays out the red carpet for any country as regards transfer of nuclear technology and other high technology. For this to happen again, another democratic country with a population of a billion and with the promise of becoming one of the three most powerful countries in the world within the next two decades will have to emerge.

And that ain't happenin'.
 
Dats a good article (by satish chandra), What effect the agreement is going to have only future can tell. Fact is that while US has made concessions in this deal that have not been made in similar agreements with other countries, problematic issues are still there.

Initial concerns were on 3 fronts

[*]deal would affect Country's nuclear weapons prog
[*]would affect the indigenous 3 stage nuclear energy and R&D prog
[*]Compromises on foreign policy
[/list]while the 1st two concerns have been addressed somewhat, Foreign policy issues still remain unanswered. Especially if we see the way India has already been pressurized into voting against Iran at IAEA. Infact, it was clearly stated by US that the nulcear deal would fall though if India didnt vote against iran. The Iran-pakistan-india gas pipeline will also not see the light of the day due to US tactics. The recent, apparently harmless, hosting of USS nimitz was actually an exercise in refueling and resupplying a US warship that could possibly used in another mindless attack against west asian/middle eastern countries. ACSA is another controversial issue, in simple words it amounts to a strategic agreement to assist the US militarily if it decides to take on any country in the neighbourhood and even elsewhere.

WHile i support the deal as its essential for India coz we are desperately in need of fuel and also advanced tech. and also coz it has ruffled the feathers of our neighbours..suddenly we find China recognizing sikkim to be a part of india and willing to negotiate on border issue's and also inviting India to be part of SCO (shanghai co-op Org) , PM needs to clear the air and categorically state the limits of Indian co-op with US. He should make it clear that arm twisting India into any decision which falls with in its sovereign domain will not be acceptable at any cost. India needs to be careful and see that the concessions that have been granted are not wrestled back by US in the form of NSG guidelines.
 
China did not recognize Sikkim to be part of India just because of the deal. We have recognised Tibet as an indivisible part of China in return. Again, recently the Chinese Ambassador said openly that they consider the whole of Arunachal Pradesh to be part of China and the Chinese Government declined to give a visa to an IAS officer of Arunachal cadre saying Chinese citizens do not need a visa to visit China. China is continuing to supply missile and nuclear technology to Pakistan and no one (not even the US) can do anything about it because of its clout.As regards Iran, the less that is said the better. We had an agreement with them when the gas prices were low. It was waiting for ratification by the Iranian government. When Ahmed.. (whatever his full name is) came to power, his government immediately stalled the process and now they are demanding about three times the price. And the funny thing is that the pipeline is going to pass through Pakistan.Putin is taking Russia into a completely different direction. Russian nationalism defies logic. Its seems they would rather be proud than free. Yeltsin has to take a major part of the blame for his. He messed up Russia's transition from communism to capitalism.There is nothing wrong in maintaining a cordial relationship with neighbouring countries. But we must never turn our backs towards them because of past history. Those who don't study history are condemned to repeat it. Musharaff can't be trusted. Period. How can you trust a man who first stabbed his own prime minister in the back, then came to India acting like an old friend and did a volte-face at the Agra Summit delivering a crushing insult to the Vajpayee government?In spite of India's growing importance on the world stage, we should remember that in another twenty years, China is going to be THE MOST powerful country in the world. All other countries are going to be a distant second, third and so on. So we need to choose our allies carefully now and not adopt an ostrich-like attitude.I am not suggesting getting into bed with the US. But there is no other realistic possibility. If India drops this opportunity, I foresee a very bleak future.
 
^ abt ur china point, we may have recognised Tibet as part of china but we still give refuge to its residents which is intensely disliked by it. However there is no denying the fact that China is worried abt this deal and growing cooperation between India and US. Infact some ppl regard the recent US overtures towards india to be a counter-balancing effort to contain China. IMO US will not make the same mistake that it made with china but still China is troubled by this bonhomie. Basically china is feeling the pressure to mend realtions with India, not only coz of US, but also coz of growing clout of India but the US action has certainly brought this issue into sharp focus. China is avidly following the deal (see today's TOI) and they are very much interested in seeing it getting disrupted

China's happy that India-US deal's in trouble-China-World-The Times of India

Regarding the IRan issue,U didnt get the point -- the point i was making was that irrespective of what Iran does/ will do -- the decision that India takes should not be determined by US interests.By voting against iran at IAEA, the indian govt seems to be showing that its already under pressure to appease the US..if the deal doesnt go thru with Iran it should be for the right reasons not coz of compliance with US policies. And this only an example..larger issue being the safeguarding of an Independent foreign policy

The Hindu : National : `U.S. opposition to Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline based on legal issues'
 
Yes. the refugees have been in India for over 50 years now. It is sad to see that even the Dalai Lama has lost all hope and is talking of a Tibet within the confines of China. Realistically speaking, an independent Tibet is just as unlikely as an independent Kashmir. Both won't survive.

Regarding Iran, I did get your point. We did vote against them. But so did the whole world. Independent Foreign Policy is an anachronism. Foreign policy cannot be disentangled from national interest. We have to see is what is better for India. If voting against Iran is the price we have to pay, so be it. It did not make diplomatic sense in supporting Iran.

Again you have to divorce the country from its government. In democracies, people can protest against their government. See what we do every day in India. See what happens in the US. But this cannot happen in dictatorships and theocratic countries where one group holds power to the exclusion of all others. So a vote against Iran does not mean a vote against its people.

US overtures ARE counterbalancing efforts. What else can they be? The US has not turned benevolent suddenly. It always puts its national interests before everything else, sometimes to the detriment of others - Korea, Vietnam, Panama.... After 9-11, it started wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. People may hate it. People may hate Bush. And they are justified. But the fact is NO terrorist act has taken place in the US after that.

The larger issue is to see to it that India is safeguarded from its immediate neighbours, Pakistan and China. i don't listen to them. I don't believe them. I don't trust them. Other countries are no threat to us.

We don't start wars. And the US would be crazy to attack us. Today, both countries are compatible. So lets take the deal. We will deal (pun intended) with tomorrow when it comes.

I have read the Times. I like it that China is pissed off about the deal and I hate it that China is happy because we are making a mess of the same.
 
Regarding Iran, I did get your point. We did vote against them. But so did the whole world. Independent Foreign Policy is an anachronism. Foreign policy cannot be disentangled from national interest. We have to see is what is better for India.


Thats exactly what i am trying to say..foreign policy should be determined by national interest..


If voting against Iran is the price we have to pay, so be it. It did not make diplomatic sense in supporting Iran.
Earlier it was making perfect diplomatic sense for us to support Iran..US comes into picture..and we have a reversal in our attitude..If we toe the US line..what differnce will remain between us and countries like UK and S.korea..if tomorrow US launches a war on IRan and we are compelled to support it coz of some stupid agreement we have concluded (talking abt ACSA here not nuc deal)..not only will it undermine our credility internationally, it will also not be in national interest.


US overtures ARE counterbalancing efforts. What else can they be? The US has not turned benevolent suddenly. It always puts its national interests before everything else, sometimes to the detriment of others -
Yes but there are strategic as well economic aspects as well..
 
Regarding the Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA) purportedly in final stages, India is a sovereign country. Refueling ships is one thing. Sending an army into another country is another. In the last sixty years we have only done it on two occasions - Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

Bangladesh was necessary to stop the influx of refugees. Sri Lanka was a diplomatic disaster.

We have already snubbed the US on Iraq (Vajpayee is initially supposed to have agreed, but backtracked at the last moment as he became aware of the significance of the move). There is no way India is going to send an army to attack any country (Iran included) unless its own interests are severely compromised (that is India is attacked or an attack is imminent).

We raised such a hue-and-cry during the IC814 hijacking (we were not ready to accept casualties in a case where our security was at stake). Imagine Indian casualties in a war where India is not a party. The government would be hounded out of office and the MPs would be stoned on the streets. There are some things that India just cannot do. If the US doesn't understand this, then they are idiots.

Diplomacy is a game of give-and-take. And it has to be seen in the context of other issues. If I say it makes diplomatic sense for India to support Tuvalu, what does that mean? Nothing. There is no background. In the case of Iran, however, whether or not it made sense earlier, the deal tipped the scales against Iran. That is what I meant. When the US, UK, France, China and Russia have voted against US, what would an India vote in its favour have proved?

Again, credibility is a relative issue. If we have such credibility, why do all NAM nations not support us on the UNSC issue. And what credibility does China have that all the Sub-Saharan countries are queuing up for help and giving its companies oil and mineral blocks.

Sometimes, humility can be taken as a sign of cowardice. In international diplomacy, only two things matter - power and wealth. Everything else is secondary.
 
Regarding the Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA) purportedly in final stages, India is a sovereign country. Refueling ships is one thing. Sending an army into another country is another. In the last sixty years we have only done it on two occasions - Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.


Its not necessary that to support a war u have to send ur army in..there are many ways in which that can done..for eg if that ship was used to attack another country it would be nothing short of unfriendly act against the third country.

We have already snubbed the US on Iraq (Vajpayee is initially supposed to have agreed, but backtracked at the last moment as he became aware of the significance of the move). There is no way India is going to send an army to attack any country (Iran included) unless its own interests are severely compromised (that is India is attacked or an attack is imminent)....There are some things that India just cannot do. If the US doesn't understand this, then they are idiots.
The US is talking legal agreements here..what u do or dont do is to be detemined by what u have committed in the agreement. If clauses are inserted in ACSA to the effect that india will have to offer strategic/logistical help to US initiatives..then a refusal by India would result in a termination of the co-op, reimposition of nuclear apartheid, this is what we have to guard against. We cant just believe that the americans will at some point in future understand automatically what we can and what we cannot do..its not telepathy we are talking about here.

If I say it makes diplomatic sense for India to support Tuvalu, what does that mean? Nothing. There is no background. In the case of Iran, however, whether or not it made sense earlier, the deal tipped the scales against Iran. That is what I meant. When the US, UK, France, China and Russia have voted against US, what would an India vote in its favour have proved?

Iran is not TUvalu..and Iran has had a history of relations with india..here is a quote from wikipedia with proper references (for credibility issues)

Yet India managed to vote against Iran in the IAEA in 2005, which took Iran's government by surprise. A "hurt" Ali Larijani was reported as saying: "India was our friend". [3]

As the standoff continues to develop, columnists such as Joe Hirsch believe that unlike Russia and China, "India could indeed be bought off by US incentives like the nuclear deal, because its shortsighted leaders don't recognize that they are committing national suicide by entering into this nuclear deal with the US." Jorge Hirsch, interview April 12, 2006 [4]) Stephen Rademaker also acknowledged that India's votes against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency were "coerced":[53]

"The best illustration of this is the two votes India cast against Iran at the IAEA. I am the first person to admit that the votes were coerced."


since u seem to be focussed on this Iran-india issue i would like to state that i have used it only as an example of US influencing our FP..i am not commenting on the vote against iran or whether the reversal in attitude was good or bad. what i am highlighting is that we were coerced into it...and that is a fact ..and that might happen in future as well.. on more fundamental and imp questions..which is not good

Again, credibility is a relative issue. If we have such credibility, why do all NAM nations not support us on the UNSC issue. And what credibility does China have that all the Sub-Saharan countries are queuing up for help and giving its companies oil and mineral blocks.

In terms of foreign policy India does have credibilty we have been known to have an Independent foreign policy since the time we became independent. Infact we were one of the founders of NAM..whether its relevant today or not is a different issue..
 
Discussion kahaan shuru kiyaa aur kaahan aa gaye...

This thread might soon be redundant. The Left has put brakes on the entire thing. They have threatened to withdraw support unless deal is put on hold.

OK, lets continue.

Its not necessary that to support a war u have to send ur army in..there are many ways in which that can done..for eg if that ship was used to attack another country it would be nothing short of unfriendly act against the third country.
Consider this example:
CASE A: You buy and give X (a person you know) a hockey stick while knowing fully that he is going to use it to hit some one. And you see him hitting Y (another friend) with it.
Case B: X (some one you know) hits Y (your friend) with a hockey stick.

Would you say Case A is unacceptable because you have armed X whereas Case B is better because although your friend was attacked, at least you did not help in arming X. Is it an active support vs passive acceptance issue? Is A morally wrong while B is morally OK. If both are on an equal footing, what difference does it make?

If clauses are inserted in ACSA...telepathy...
Why don't we protest at that point about it? If the ACSA has clauses directing that India should attack so and so, then let the government say no. Why now? As far as I know the deal has no explicit linkages to any ACSA. There is the Hyde Act which is not binding.
Hyde Act not binding, says Bush : Indo-US, nuclear agreement, bush, manmohan singh, Hyde Act from New Delhi
Once the deal is signed, unless we test the bomb, there is no way the US can stop cooperation on that front.

Iran is not TUvalu..and Iran has had a history of relations with India..India was our friend
I know. But the circumstances are similar. The history you are talking about is .. well.. historical. We have similar history with China too.
Actually I think I am bang on target as regards comparison with Tuvalu because there is no background. We have hardly done anything earth shaking with Iran over the past 60 years. The pipeline is the first major initiative with Iran. And it is a non starter. We just dusted our Iran files when we voted against them. You see, there has hardly been any opportunity to use them before.

I do not have an agenda against Iran. Iran is an undercurrent to the discussion because it finds a mention in the Hyde Act. I would say similar things about the following (albeit less harsher things, because these do not have any significant effect on India's foreign policy vis-a-vis the west):
Bangladesh -
Have tonnes of natural gas which neither they are using nor are they selling it to us. Stalled on permission to allow gas pipeline between Burma and India to bring in gas from Burma (Read this. Couldn't find original TOI article.)

Burma -
An ally. Aung San Suu Kyi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia who won a democratic election is in jail. This is morally acceptable as far as India is concerned. One point in its favour is that sometimes it helps us in tackling ULFA. But that comes at a price.

Nepal - Always accuses India of interfering in its affairs. Still an ally. Our Sitaram Yechuri has no qualms brokering deals involving Pranchanda. But has serious problems with anything American.

Sri Lanka - On-off (mostly on) relationship with India. The LTTE-Lanka conflict is a two-decade old thorn in our flesh and has already claimed the life of RG. We can't seem to do anything on the issue without making a diplomatic gaffe. Sometimes, plays off India, Pakistan and China against each other for its benefit (which is its national interest); or our diplomats and NSA start talking about Lanka and the "Indian sphere of influence". Considered an ally. Has signed ACSA with US.

From the Wikipedia article from which you have quoted:
As the standoff continues to develop, columnists such as Joe Hirsch believe that unlike Russia and China, "India could indeed be bought off by US incentives like the nuclear deal, because its shortsighted leaders don't recognize that they are committing national suicide by entering into this nuclear deal with the US."
What is wrong? They offer some thing. We return the favour. This is business. Why would Russia and China want to be bought off? Russia is still emerging from the Cold War knockout delivered by US. Oil and gas revenues have given it a new backbone. What does US have that China would want? It has a UNSC seat, wealth, US as its largest debtor and a military might that borders on the obscene, will soon be comparable to the US. Then we will see who wants hegemony. They grab every opportunity then can of threatening some countries, embarrassing others and plotting against some more.

India, on the other hand, has always adopted a holier-than-thou attitude in diplomatic matters. Which has brought it absolutely nothing over the years.

From Reform of the United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Shashi Tharoor, the United Nation's Under-Secretary General for Communications and Public Information in his book "Nehru - The Invention of India," writes that Jawaharlal Nehru "declined a United States informal offer" to India to "take the permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council" around 1953. Nehru declined the offer about the same time as he turned down "with scorn" John Foster Dulles' support for an Indian Monroe Doctrine. Nehru did so on the beliefs that India should remain a neutral wedge in world politics, becoming the founding member of the Non-aligned Movement.

This is why we are where we are right now.

This is what I believe:
1. India should sign the deal so that we get access to latest nuclear tech and other dual use tech.
2. Any ACSA that we sign will have to pass the test of India's strategic interest.
3. We should watch our backs very carefully if we do not want to lose Kashmir to Pakistan and the entire North-East to China.

If in doing these, some countries consider India to be opportunistic, they can take a hike. Morality and diplomacy are oil and water - they do not mix.

Finally, a quote to round this up.
Diplomat: A person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip. ~Caskie Stinett, Out of the Red, 1960

Till now I have been writing based on third party information (newspapers, tv etc.). I have managed to locate the two documents that are at the very root of the discussion:

123 Agreement

Hyde Act Summary
Hyde Act Full Text

If you have read it, fine. I will go through it and then we can continue with this thread.
 
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