Interpretation Of Dreams

[Fiber_Optic]

Well, thats why i asked your opinion on that last statement,
Did you ask me or tech_enthu? you didn't see whose post it was did you

from which i guess he does not approve of the caste system, which he terms as 'exploitative social order'. I think you will find much agreement from foreigners with this.
The problem is most of Indian history as we know it was written by the brits when they were in control of the country. It is likely that important issues such as Caste system or oppression by Muslim rulers were overplayed by the brits so that it helps them maintain control. After all it is little secret that they followed the policy of divide and rule.


I'm very interested to hear foreigner's opinions about the country as often they present a different view to what we have. They are a fresh set of eyes so to speak. Sure they come with thier biases & agendas but for that we need to be educated enough to spot them.
Yes, by and large foreign authors, tend to be neutral but that doesn't apply to Brits. Brits are part of Indian history and thereby they cannot be considered neutral

What i don't understand is whether the BJP seeks to preserve this order or not. My understanding of the BJPs composition is orthodox brahmins, mostly.

I believe BJP started as a FC party (not just bramins), but over the years if you look at their performance in states like MP, Chatisgarh, Gujarat they perform very well among sc,st and obc, a lot of their second rank leadership also comes from those castes


Is the current rate of social change within the country at an optimal level, slower than necessary or too fast ?

I was born and bought up in cities, I have no idea about the rate of social change in rural India, where caste exists.

Ultimately this country's future depends on how many people it can empower.
Agreed

 

[blr_p]

The problem is most of Indian history as we know it was written by the brits when they were in control of the country. It is likely that important issues such as Caste system or oppression by Muslim rulers were overplayed by the brits so that it helps them maintain control. After all it is little secret that they followed the policy of divide and rule.

Would this also apply post independence ?


Yes, by and large foreign authors, tend to be neutral but that doesn't apply to Brits. Brits are part of Indian history and thereby they cannot be considered neutral

If it helps matters, the author in question is Belgian, and now a naturalised Indian citizen. Clearly, he is an indophile.

I believe BJP started as a FC party (not just bramins), but over the years if you look at their performance in states like MP, Chatisgarh, Gujarat they perform very well among sc,st and obc, a lot of their second rank leadership also comes from those castes

So could it be said then that the BJP isn't exactly trying to preserve the natural order of things ?

If they expect to get the required votes they could not afford to confine themselves to just certain sections of the caste spectrum, like any other party for that matter.

Then i'm not sure what the author was alluding to when he says...

Their agenda is to restore India’s lost glory as they perceive it. This lost glory is nothing but the traditional, exploitative social order dominated by them. Over the centuries, this domination has been achieved partly through force, and partly through deception.

BJP isn't going to enforce the caste system amongst Hindus is it ?

 

[SVK]

Why so much dissection of policies of BJP No body (media) mentioned or highlighted Cong's approach when once its top mgmt asked for list of candidates (may be from UP for UP elections) along with each person's caste highlighted. What was that?

 

[Fiber_Optic]

Would this also apply post independence ?

FWIK most of that history was never revised, considering it has become a political issue, they are unlikely to be revised either


If it helps matters, the author in question is Belgian, and now a naturalised Indian citizen. Clearly, he is an indophile.
Well thats better, personally I would prefer American historians, since they tend to be equally critical of colonialist and natives.


So could it be said then that the BJP isn't exactly trying to preserve the natural order of things ?

If they expect to get the required votes they could not afford to confine themselves to just certain sections of the caste spectrum, like any other party for that matter.

FWIK, Hindu right tend to be against caste system, as they believe it weakens and divides the community.

Then i'm not sure what the author was alluding to when he says...

On the face vallue, it appears he doesn't know enough about the Hindu right wing and/or he is biased.

BJP isn't going to enforce the caste system amongst Hindus is it ?
Why would they?, considering that without caste system, BJP would have the largest votebank in the country.

 

[blr_p]

FWIK most of that history was never revised, considering it has become a political issue, they are unlikely to be revised either

I don't follow what you mean :huh:

I think politics getting into the game defnitely affects what is said don't you.

What is an academic matter now becomes an open public affair where the main aim is to play to the gallery.

I'm not saying prevent politicans from using such in their speeches but caution would be well advised about taking it at more than face value.


personally I would prefer American historians, since they tend to be equally critical of colonialist and natives.

What about politicans that try to twist it for their ends then

I do remember an abundance of India is all wonderful articles coming out a few years back and wondering where do they come up with all of this. Basically you take one fact and then embellish it with a lot of other related stuff and then make grand statements about how great we are.

So long as that stuff stays within the country its fine, but once it gets voiced in the intl.arena, the reaction is usually laughter

You counter this if its based on facts and then you straighten the record or you got fooled by your own people.

On the face vallue, it appears he doesn't know enough about the Hindu right wing and/or he is biased.

Agreed, unless i have misunderstood what the author is saying but i don't think so.

 

[Fiber_Optic]

I don't follow what you mean :huh:
The history written by the brits was never revised completely, we still read history that are written by the Brits with their own agenda. Now that revising history has become a political issue it is unlikely to be properly revised either.
What about politicans that try to twist it for their ends then

But thats their Job I do remember an abundance of India is all wonderful articles coming out a few years back and wondering where do they come up with all of this. Basically you take one fact and then embellish it with a lot of other related stuff and then make grand statements about how great we are.


That happens everywhere, almost all countries do that. There was a John stewart show where he makes fun of George Bush for calling patience and Perseverance(or something like that) as "Uniquely American Characteristics"
So long as that stuff stays within the country its fine, but once it
gets voiced in the intl.arena, the reaction is usually laughter

Unless you have Hollywood , then you can virtually rewrite history.

 

[tech_enthu]

It is very difficult to prove 'true history'. Let us have multiple versions of history; eventually versions which are closer to truth and have sustainable evidence will stand the test of enquiry and validation.Our history has been written by western indologists, communists, JNU academics and a coterie of networked hindu/india haters. Even the Indian History congress did not accept any papers which questioned the aryan invasion theory or theories which showed ancient india in a favourable light. The network and funding by the foreign agencies and indian government ensured that only those who subscribed to the theory (claimed as facts) of biased western indologists got the necessary funds, posts and scholarships to get into this club. And almost all of these academics have pursued their research with western translations, and have not learnt or studied sanskrit or other language literature in original.Now, a good number of new generation linguists, archeologists and technocrats have entered the field; they are able to give another version of history based on authentic indian sources. One must read how they are abused by the western indologists.Many of the theories of the western/communist indologists are on shaky ground. We have to wait for some more time for the dust to clear.

 

[blr_p]

Now that revising history has become a political issue it is unlikely to be properly revised either.

Right, so it means that this subject is more credibly advanced in academia.

Unless you have Hollywood , then you can virtually rewrite history.

ha, that works for the majority of ppl

It is very difficult to prove 'true history'. Let us have multiple versions of history; eventually versions which are closer to truth and have sustainable evidence will stand the test of enquiry and validation.

Thats the way it should be, tho what makes it more certain is new findings or work.


The network and funding by the foreign agencies and indian government ensured that only those who subscribed to the theory (claimed as facts) of biased western indologists got the necessary funds, posts and scholarships to get into this club. And almost all of these academics have pursued their research with western translations, and have not learnt or studied sanskrit or other language literature in original.

So it should be easy for those that DO understand the language to rebutt any of the previous assertions. This line is not without its flaws tho as the more prestigous institutes would defnitely have ppl that can understand the language as well as us.

It seems more a question of how reputable the institution or author is to be taken credibly. There might be any number of ppl writing there, how else do we tell what good it is.

I've found if the author has a career at stake the work tends to be more rigourous


Now, a good number of new generation linguists, archeologists and technocrats have entered the field; they are able to give another version of history based on authentic indian sources. One must read how they are abused by the western indologists.

Any reputable sources to share ?

Many of the theories of the western/communist indologists are on shaky ground. We have to wait for some more time for the dust to clear.

I read recently that some research by IIT showed that the Harappan language or at least what litte we have of it was indeed a language instead of just symbols as previously thought based on linguistic analysis of how frequently certain symbols appeared.

I'm unaware of how well received that paper was abroad.

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No body (media) mentioned or highlighted Cong's approach when once its top mgmt asked for list of candidates (may be from UP for UP elections) along with each person's caste highlighted. What was that?

You are welcome to start a thread to discuss if you so wish

I kinda find it hard to believe tho, as no party stands much of a chance with such a policy. Just imagine if one was an oppostion politican, best thing would be to get that to the press as quick as possible. Then just sit back and watch the fun, and votes come your way

 

[tech_enthu]

Public Health Care

The ‘eminent historians’ dismiss the observations of Fa-Hien and Huan Tsang as brief references to the treatment of monks. However, the statements of both observers are far from brief or ambiguous; these are very explicit and detailed. What Fa Hien actually says in this context is:

“The nobles and householders of this country have founded hospitals within the city, to which the poor of all countries, the destitute, cripples and the diseased may repair. They receive every kind of requisite help gratuitously. Physicians inspect their diseases, and according to their cases, order them food and drink, medicine or decoctions, everything in fact that may contribute to their ease. When cured they depart at ease.”

The quote is from Fa Hien: A Record of Buddhist Kingdoms, English Translation by J. Legge, Oxford 1886, Delhi Reprint 1971, p.79. Your readers should be able to easily get this book in any good public library.

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Dominik Wujastyk, in his The Roots of Ayurveda: Selections from Sanskrit Medical Writings (Penguin Classics, London 2003), concludes the following on the basis of Fa-Hien’s observations:

“This description by Fa Hsien is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be equipped… suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized metropolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.”

 

[blr_p]

Very good but the traveler in question is megasthenes, who predates Fa Hsien by seven centuries. Don't think Fa Hsien's account is in question.