US Financial Crisis

[blr_p]

you ask why the greenback system was removed after civil war.simple after Lincolns assassination no one applied it

No Shit!

..and why has 'no one applied it' 150+ yrs since ?

If..as you claim, its superior.

Cos it only seems to be used when nothing better is available, Guernsey introduced it when they were broke after the Napoleonic wars. But when that time passes, things change and 99.99% of the world does not either.

I don't think things have come to that stage as yet FYI

and i never said we need binary economics.

Really (?), cos your movie has a similar position..

The interest-free loans proposed by binary economics are compatible with the traditional opposition of the Abrahamic religions to usury.

Binary economics is concerned that the banking system 'creates new money out of nothing' by issuing more credit than it has reserves. The supply of interest-free loans takes place in circumstances of a move (over time) towards banks maintaining reserves equal to 100% of their deposits.

You defend the evil bankers to death.

Which bankers are you talking about here, chief ?

Cos if its investment bankers, then its a foregone conclusion they won't be given the same past lattitude for some time to come.

If however you mean the Fed or central bankers, then.. well, you are entitled to your opinion, not a very informed or credible one i might add

Do you even understand the difference ?

People are waking up and are definately agaisnt fed.your cover up wont work.

What cover up ?

The question is whether or not to use the $700b bail out. If the senate agrees then what more is there to say. Last i checked senators were nominated by representatives elected by the people. The house vote is in so the people have given their verdict on the matter, at which point it becomes irrelevant what either of us think on the matter

Source
The final agreement called for the $700 billion to be disbursed in parts: $250 billion at first, to get the program started, followed by $100 billion at the discretion of Mr. Bush and the remaining $350 billion upon request of the Treasury with Congress empowered to block the last installment by acting within 15 days.

And, if the rescue plan has lost money after five years, the bill requires the president to submit a plan to Congress for recouping the losses from the financial industry, perhaps through fees or a tax on securities transactions.

Now that the blame game is on, ppl think the Fed should have done more to prevent this from happening. That the regulators were asleep. Course i'm sure we will see the US govt. regulating financial markets a great deal more from now on.

Without adequate regulation, disasters can happen. Too much regulation stifles industry. The system is not perfect but its the best to date.

Ron paul has said the ben bernake should be put in jail

Source ?

and has introduced this act that will remove the fed HR 2755
Digg - Ron Paul Drafts H.R. 2755: Federal Reserve Abolition Act

A link to said act is here

It was introduced in Jun 2007, if you see on that page about its status, there has been NO progress since, ie it ain't going anywhere !

You do understand how these things work or don't you, just cause a bill or act is introduced does not amount to much, unless it has support (read self-interest) and gets voted on both by the House & the Senate.

And if that does not happen then nothing more comes off it.

you are against the principles of freedom liberty and equality.

Hah, i'd like to see you prove it

either you dont want to watch money masters or you purposefully tring to discredit me.Either way its your loss

I've already demonstrated that the first 15 minutes of your movie has numerous factual errors so why do you expect anyone with half a brain to trust what they say about the global finance system, let alone, advocate its total overhaul ?

All based on non-mainstream, unproven, controversial economics :frown:

Clearly this movie WAS made for ppl, who are too lazy or incapable of understanding the facts, not to mention THE BIG PICTURE and as is evident, in your case, fallen for it hook, line & sinker.

any thing less then govt issued debt and interest free money coupled with full reserve system and removal of imf and central banks is dangerous.

How do you loan money out to countries that can't control their spending ?

In the case of individuals this is exactly what has happened with the subprime mortgage crisis. That ways were found to give ppl that house they dreamed of having and where exactly has that led us ?

If you say NO when they ask for loans you are evil, if you then give them the money with high interest (as its return is uncertain) and they get into debt you are also evil.

So clearly the new ideas are out and the old hard boiled wisdom is back in.

we are 6.5 billion and the ruling elite are less than 5 million but this time we have the internet and we are waking up one by one.
NO ARMY CAN STOP AN IDEA WHO'S TIME HAS COME -Victor Hugo

Hah, when was that movie made ? 1996

A rather curious year as the economy in the US was actually seeing massive expansion, those were boom times the likes of which we would be lucky to see again within our lifetime.

Fact that we have the internet has actually worked against your movie by making it trivial to cross-reference & debunk it.

 

[warthog]

that is what you think,you think that your points will make the avg joe side with you,eh ah it wont.and about ron paul saying that the fed chairmen should go to jail


and if you are lazy let me give you the link

 

[amish]

looks like civil war already started, but on IBF!

 

[warthog]

ibf?

 

[amish]

see top of this page! its where u exist!

 

[warthog]

well blrp zeitgeist part 2 has been released.what a wonderful time.It all talks about money.timing is great.I'll watch itEDIT:its disinfo

 

[blr_p]

that is what you think,you think that your points will make the avg joe side iwth you,eh ah it wont.

Do you even understand how the current situation happened, obviously not ?

Every 'quack' out there will be selling their version of it, unless you inform youself, you will remain blind.

Well, i'm more interested to see how we get out of this mess.

and about ron paul saying that the fed chairmen should go to jail

Alex Jones' Prison Planet: The truth will set you free!

ok..lets see, its less than 5 weeks to the election, and politicans are out working for their futures. Would be reasonable to expect more of this talk till things calm down after Nov.

Which by the looks of it will mean a CERTAIN democrat win!

All the socialists are going to scream more 'regulation', more govt. involvement etc.

Paul warned that the only question was whether the meltdown would last one year or ten years and how much liberty would be lost in that time frame.

Heh, well, there is no guranteee either way. Bottom line is the ppl HAVE spoken re: this decison, else it would have got shot down again like on Monday. And the only reason it worked this time around is because they sweetened it with tax breaks for everyone as well as increasing deposit insurance on accounts.

If a bank goes bust in India, all you will get is 1lakh, regardless of how much or how many accounts you hold with the bank. Well with this new bill, in the US they increased that limit from $100,000 to $250,000. This will cover virtually everyone that has money in the bank and will certainly give ppl peace of mind.

I'm not too happy with the bailout decison but its better than the alternative of doing nothing which i think has more chance of producing civil unrest, martial law etc, all the things you say will happen.

Expect Dollar to devalue & inflation to rise along with interest rates and oil prices. But the US is not in this alone, every cental bank that holds dollars will be working in tandem to stem the loss, which will help things quite a bit. It might cause a slight global shift away from the dollar tho i expect this to be minimal.

Things will recover eventually, as they always have

The Congressman said that Greenspan and Bernanke should be criminally charged but that such an effort would be largely symbolic. “Morally speaking, they’re the culprits,” said Paul.

FIrst off, Greespan is no longer in charge, Bernanke is.

If Bernanke sat by and did nothing then sure, but he did act and that's why the bailout happened. I don't for a minute expect things to continue as they have, there will defnitely be changes regarding independence of wall street banks as well as insurance companies.

“In the meantime the policy ought to be - shrink the size of government, decrease regulation, work towards sound money, remove the authority of the Fed to create money out of thin air and get tax reduction,” stated the Congressman. Paul added that eliminating the income tax would mean everybody becoming a lot richer and more money would be ploughed into the economy.

See, this is why Ron Paul does not get too much attention, cept in certain areas of the web. His book was more successful.

Decrease regulation ?,,heh, you must be kidding, the cry is almost unanimous that we got into this mess, in the first place precisely because there was insufficient regulation. I'm all for smaller govt etc but i think that way of thinking has taken a severe beating after current events.

I think he is referring to 'federal' income tax here rather than doing away completely with income taxes, hehe. :rofl:

“I think they get to the point where they think they’re like God and can control everything and they don’t realize that the market really is more powerful than all the bankers and all the politicians….Ultimately the underground economy is the real economy and I think they could over step themselves and hopefully we could come out with a better world afterwards,” concluded the Congressman.

The central bank HAS to be all powerful if they are to have any chance at affecting how the economy works, their job is to safeguard the economy or at best lighten any shocks that are beyond control. A lender of last resort!.

Take central banks away and those shocks will surely, indiscriminately, destroy livelihoods wherever they are vulnerable. Surely that's not what we want.

well blrp zeitgeist part 2 has been released.what a wonderful time.It all talks about money.timing is great.I'll watch it
Zeitgeist: Addendum

First 10 mins :
First off, after the govt. asked the fed for $10B, notice the IOU's that got exchanged between them. That's the important bit as it shows everything is accounted for. Therefore nothing is 'out of thin air'.

Then it goes on about how, through fractional banking, the $10B -> $90B (but does not mention that for anyone to avail of said loan, a surety must be offered in exchange). Ignores that the biggest danger with creating money 'out of thin air' is the attendant inflation & devaluation of one's currency, if done irresponsibly can lead to hyperinflation. Which to date has not occurred in the US nor our country, therefore these central bankers are doing their job correctly.

10-20 mins : Hah, talks about a how a dollar 94 years ago is worth a lot more in today's money or as they choose to put it, that today's money is worth 96% less than the older dollar.

Well, look up the time value of money. Of course money from the past is worth more in today's money because had you invested it at the time it would have accrued interest and be worth much more today then it was back then. Course had you not done so, then for sure you will be poorer as a resutl

So are bank accounts only for the rich ?, of course not anyone can open one if they have something to put in it and earn interest on their savings. Nothing for that matter stops anyone investing in more riskier ventures either.

If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money, if there is no money there is no debt.

Circular argument.
In contemporary usage, "begging the question" often refers to an argument where the premises are as questionable as the conclusion.

Once you pay off you bank loans for you car or house, there is no money left ?..how simplistic

20-25 mins

Debt is the weapon used to enslave people and interest is its ammunition

The only debt one might typicaly get into is loans for a car & home. You don't have to own your home, you can rent all your life. But consider why so many leaders worldwide have been championing home ownership as the singular greatest way to increase the wealth of their citizens. For if you own your own home you are largely free (of debt). You have built your own equity instead of someone else's

About the IMF & World Bank, why blame these organisations when its the corrupt leaders of the countries they loan to that make off with the lion's share. These leaders it could be argued are largely responsible for the lot of their people or do you expect these banks to go in and mind the affairs of sovereign countries. The responsiblity is on the borrower, after all, those organisations are not charities they are for-profit.

We have been borrowers from these organisations in the old days as well, but we have been very careful at paying back our debts and were never enslaved by them.

25-35 mins
Interesting narration here by John Perkins (the ex-economic hit man) about Iran, Guatemala, Ecuador, Venezuela & Iraq.

The first three are about national leaders trying to free themselves from previous treaties and were taken out. When it comes to oil, the oil companies invested enormous funds into developing theoil industry and get an exchange of its profits. From what i can tell Iran, Ecuador & Venezuela were about 'who gets how much?' after the treaties were signed. You sign a treaty saying so much, but later change those terms for various other reasons. It's going to lead to problems later on isn't it.

Consider that most other gulf countries, successfully nationalised their oil industries without any problems. Not a single coup in the entire Arabian peninsula, curious isn't it. I suppose they were all bought out

Oil makes the whole subject very grey as it involves the national interests of several countries other than just the producers. Keep the gears of industry well oiled & runnning and we avoid, martial law & wars. There is even the argument to wage war to keep the peace. The only rule that applies here is 'Might is Right'.

35-50 mins
Talks about globalisation only benefitting the few, well if that were the case i think they would not have got very far. Obviously they benefit the workers in many ways too. They spend and that benefits whomever their customers are.

Would you argue to stop outsourcing to India ?

50-1h30 mins

 

[warthog]

I just watched and i am a sorry blrp to post it.It was totally opposite to my writings.


i advocate govt issued debt free money not a money less system

btw another bank fails,germany 2 largest bank
BBC NEWS | Europe | Another top European bank falters

i just want to know what do you support?
even after posting proof you dont want to accept it.
pleas watch money master and money as debt and explain me why no debt is no equal to no money

also the bailout passed but it will destroy the US economy.i feel sad for the western world right now,china must be laughing.WE should be concerned about china now.

international bankers=people are slave,govt issued money=people are master

The government should create, issue, and circulate all the
currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of
the government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege
of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme
prerogative of government, but it is the government’s
greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all
public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will
become matters of practical administration. Money will
cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity."abharam lincoln

also i found this article debunk this and if you will then your are darkness
"
These are the times that try men's souls.
This short motto has echoed for centuries. It gave strength to American patriots in 1776 as it propelled them to liberty. This motto is alive and just as appropriate today as it was at the beginning of the Revolution.
Freedom was won, but corruption soon crept in. What was once a proud banner now often strikes terror in the hearts of people.
Have people become too complacent with modern living? Have people forgotten the tyranny of subjugation to a king? Have people forgotten the horrors of slavery? Will they wake up before it is too late?
When the new nation was a toddler, it took on a national bank. Jefferson caused that bank to be closed down, but others kept bringing it back. Today, the national bank is called the Federal Reserve. It should never have existed centuries ago, and it certainly should not exist today.
The present world economic crisis can be traced right to the Federal Reserve. So many nations are linked to the American economy that they are now victims of the Federal Reserve's manipulation.
Most people mistakenly think that the Federal Reserve is a government bank. If it were, then all the interest it earns would be ploughed back into the American system, hence the national debt would be zero. That is, the Americans would only owe the interest to themselves. However, the interest is collected by individuals and groups. Those who own the Federal Reserve Bank collect the interest for themselves, and make themselves extremely wealthy at the expense of American taxpayers.
The Federal Reserve charges interest on every dollar in existence, whether paper or otherwise. The owners rake off this interest. Many banks have failed, are failing or will soon fail in America. They are failing because the Federal Reserve has become so greedy that banks can barely operate in the environment. The Federal Reserve takes almost all the profits from the banking industry and only provides scraps to its subservient banks.
The banks have to scrape and maul their customers to survive in this critical time. So, the banks become ruthless. Nobody cares for the banks because they are ruthless. Further, many of the banks have turned to unlawful activities just to stay afloat. The cause of all this disarray is the Federal Reserve.
Shut the Federal Reserve down tomorrow and things will begin to improve. Ban any national banks, and it will be a long-term solution. The small group of people who are taking all the interest from the Federal Reserve should be charged and tried for their horrible crimes against all the people in the world.
Not only is America affected, but the entire world is being fleeced by the Federal Reserve, because the whole world is impacted by American commerce and banking.
In these times that try men's souls, those without souls need to be tried and convicted. They are the culprits. They are the criminals. They are the evil slave masters."
Thomas Paine Rides Again

 

[blr_p]

i advocate govt issued debt free money not a money less system

Fine, lets deal with the extent of this 'govt issued debt free money'

Do you agree with what is stated here ?

Or do you want something else ?

Also what are your views on fractional vs full reserve banking ?

Interest-free loans for public capital have been successfully used in Canada, New Zealand and Guernsey. Malaysia is today believed to be experimenting with them.

So there is some success, but i think it highly depends on what the boundaries are. It would be helpful if the downsides or alternatives are mentioned as well but those advocating this sort of system seldom do so.

i just want to know what do you support?
Maybe its easier to say what i don't support which as your movies have advocated :
- An abolition of central banking and by extension an abolition of fractional reserve banking.

as the justifications they offered are all flawed.

 

[warthog]

So even after all this crises whic was the result of central banks you still support them.May god help you.

let this thread die now as it is 1vs1 with no winner but i know the system which i support is viable.
i dont support binary economic as it the the devil repackaged.i support full reserve backing as there is no threat of bank run and greed

bailout has been passed so threat of martial law has been delayed by months.

susbsh please close this thread.this thread went form financial Armageddon to debate on money issue power.

i stand by the points from the documentary "money as debt" and "money masters"

your points are in opposition to the founding fathers of USA meaning you hate light,freedom,liberty and advocate slavery via money.
let me repeat this again

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.

sir josiah stamp(gover of bank of england)