2009 and we are still stuck on 256kbps for broadband

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- also known as Reliance (who own FLAG telecom), Tata (VSNL), who own both SeMeWe3 and SeMeWe4....


Just a small correction..SEA-ME-WE cables are owned by a consortium of telecom companies of which India telcos are members..thus they have part ownership..however Tata does own another global OFC n/w called Tyco Global Networks ..
 
If a customer wants to video call with his girlfriend all night, or share a 250 megabyte music video with her - and they're both using my ISP - that should be allowed because really the traffic wouldn't leave the network, and in my view, it would cost me more to restrict the speed (several hours of constant network usage versus a minute or 2).


This is the exact problem with our existing ISPs who are providing services using wimax.

They limit the download speed for their customers along with the download quota. They should allow the customers to download at maximum possible speeds that are permitted by their hardware, so that a customer can download his stuff and get off the network in as little time as possible and free the spectrum for use by another customer. If a customer is downloading a file in 1 hour on a 256 kbps wimax connection and locking a particular amount of spectrum for that duration, may be he will be able to download the same file in 2 minutes on a 5 mbps link and then free the spectrum for use by another customer for the rest of the time.

Limiting download speeds on wireless networks doesn't make any sense to me...but then there are a lot of things in our country that don't make any sense.

Commonsense is not exactly common among our existing ISPs.
 
yeap. not only slower speed packages add more load on the networks but they also adds up on power consumption :D
 
Just a small correction..SEA-ME-WE cables are owned by a consortium of telecom companies of which India telcos are members..thus they have part ownership..however Tata does own another global OFC n/w called Tyco Global Networks ..

You're again partially right. It's the same with both, however if I am correct, I believe in both cases the SMW cables and FLAG were commissioned by Tata and Reliance respectively. I may be confusing myself there, though.

It just so happens though that, in order to get access to either of the SMW cables, one has to go through Tata, and to get access to FLAG, one has to go through Reliance. As such, as far as obtaining international bandwidth from India is concerned, we must, unfortunately, lease from Tata or Reliance.

This is the exact problem with our existing ISPs who are providing services using wimax.

They limit the download speed for their customers along with the download quota. They should allow the customers to download at maximum possible speeds that are permitted by their hardware, so that a customer can download his stuff and get off the network in as little time as possible and free the spectrum for use by another customer. If a customer is downloading a file in 1 hour on a 256 kbps wimax connection and locking a particular amount of spectrum for that duration, may be he will be able to download the same file in 2 minutes on a 5 mbps link and then free the spectrum for use by another customer for the rest of the time.

Limiting download speeds on wireless networks doesn't make any sense to me...but then there are a lot of things in our country that don't make any sense.

Commonsense is not exactly common among our existing ISPs.

Agreed, though I don't necessarily see a problem with creating different tariffs for different speed plans. When one limits the speed, the limits the potential data transfer per month is limited in turn - 1 Megabit can theoretically transfer about 256 GB in a month, 10 Megabits is of course pushing the 2.5TB mark.

Though, when you get up to speeds like this, data caps are (economically speaking), not entirely bad for the customer either: would you honestly pay 10x as much for a 10 Mbit connection as you would for a 1 Mbit connection? I think not.

I am hoping I've hit a sweet spot by offering the equivalent of 10 GB of data transfer per month per megabit purchase, which for most people is - I hope - enough, plus it is significantly better in most cases compared to whats currently on offer, and is also economically viable. As opposed to providing a 100 Mbit connection and placing a 30 Gbyte data cap on it. For Rs 10,500 (Here's looking at you Tata!)

Additionally, this is one more reason why I think in-network data transfer speed limits are silly. If my customers are using bit-torrent or whatever, I would very much hope that they're downloading from another of my customers, rather than using my international bandwidth, hence my argument of "maximum in-network speed, and data from outside my network is transferred at your subscription speed".

yeap. not only slower speed packages add more load on the networks but they also adds up on power consumption :D

Someone who gets it :) That sums up my last several posts rather well.
 
@kanishka will you please shut your trap?

if things go how you say, then we'll be getting 2 mbps unlimited only in the year 2015 or 2020. good thing you're not the telecoms minister or we would still be in the jurassic ages using 32 or 64kbps for 1000Rs a month.

think more practically. we are in 2009 like the rest of the world and not in 2000 or 2002. if the ISP's decide to give broadband speeds to us like in the US or European countries, they can, if they had thought like you we would'nt have 8mbps or even 2mbps.

our ISP's are just looting us and feeding us shit.

you better wear clothes made from leaves and go back and start living in the caves kanishka.

:rofl:
i agree :urock:

I am well aware of what ISPs in the UK and Europe offer - I have recently moved to India from Finland (and before that France).

As nice as such a scenario would be, there are several things preventing this for the immediate future:

1. Most content accessed in India is on US-based servers. As such, this places stress on our international links - which are not cheap. At a 1:50 contention ratio, just to cover the cost of a 155Mbps pipe (just short of USD33000/month), we would need to charge at least USD34/Rs1,700, and even then, in effect, this means 7750 users would be sharing a 155Mbps line.

If you wanted that at 1:30 (4650 users) or 1:8 (1240 users), you'd be looking at USD56/Rs2,800 and USD210/Rs10,500 respectively - and thats assuming no-one wanted to make any profit or pay salaries to workers, and doesn't count other things like license fees to the TRAI or infrastructure.

2. There is not much hosting done in India itself. Unlike the US, UK, Netherlands, Germany, Japan and Korea where there are significant amounts of locally hosted data and large data centers.

3. Even with locally hosted data, there is the issue of a little organization called NIXI, who currently have a formula whereby ISPs are charged at Rs 50 per gigabyte incoming (although outgoing subtracts Rs 50 per gigabyte from the bill, so effectively the end price is still about Rs 35 per gigabyte).

If I had as few as 1,000 customers downloading say only 80GB of traffic per month each through NIXI, I would have to pay 80000*50 or 40 lakhs per month, minus say 20GB of upload traffic (so minus 10 lakhs), I still have to pay 30 lakhs. 30 lakhs NOT including the 16.5 lakhs per month for a separate 155Mbps line equals 46.5 lakhs per month - so for 1000 customers, thats Rs 4,650 by itself.

Bad business, especially considering an 8Mbps connection has the potential to allow 2,000GB every month, and some people MIGHT abuse this.

4. In Europe, there are several other benefits available, mostly that the European equivalients of NIXI are far less expensive, as last time I checked, they don't get charged by the GB, and secondly buying international connectivity is cheaper due to distance. With the international cables here, you pay by the kilometer, so a link from Mumbai to Singapore works out at about USD400k per year.

Finland to Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany or UK, however, is significantly less than half the distance of a BOM-SIN route, therefore far less expensive to lease. All have very large data centers and internet exchanges, especially Amsterdam and London as well, which really helps.

My ISP will be offering an 8Mbps plan for an as-yet-unfinalized price, but it will be more than Rs2,500 - although we plan to allow 80GB of international downloads (and unlimited in-network), which we think is reasonable (I am looking for opinions on this - PM me).

Additionally, NIXI have told me that the price is being reduced, but by how much and when they have not mentioned.

very informative. thanks :)

I have Home500 plan. I would like to see it changed to 10GB limit instead of a mere 1.5GB along with the 2-8am free usage.
Or if anyone brings a plan similar or better(:dance:) i would happily change. but it would be a waste if it had numerous disconnections like in BSNL.


https://www.speedtest.net
 
I have Home500 plan. I would like to see it changed to 10GB limit instead of a mere 1.5GB along with the 2-8am free usage.
Or if anyone brings a plan similar or better(:dance:) i would happily change. but it would be a waste if it had numerous disconnections like in BSNL.


I assume Home500 is Rs 500/month, "up to" 2Mbits, 2.5GB limit (Bharat Sanchar Nigam Ltd.)

This seems like an attractive plan, but personally I could eat that up with email and leaving my IM clients online without difficulty. Not to mention software updates!

I can be certain that we won't have any of this "night unlimited" rubbish. You all might think you're getting a "good deal" because you're "not paying" for those 12 hours that you can't access the net... but I'm afraid I just can't wrap my head around it.

I would guess the net is so heavily used by everyone on these plans that the experience is horrible, anyway, so whats the point? If anyone has any insight on this, please do tell: maybe it's a power (electricity) thing? Is it cheaper at night? I know my net traffic costs me the same at night, so...

I can tell you this though: unlimited traffic within the network, maximum speed within the network (your speed plan only comes in to effect at our network border), and if we do unlimited speed plans, we're thinking of a simple (pre-paid?) top-up system whereby users buy say 10GB or 100GB at a time.

Also, we plan to cache a lot of things, such as software updates, so we would effectively have a mirror of (for example) Windows Update - meaning the updates are fast and don't cost you - the users - anything (as in, Windows Updates don't count towards your bandwidth quota). Similarly with Linux distros: plan to mirror the top 20 as per Distrowatch.

More news for those watching us though, latest developments might allow us to go live nationwide right from the get go, meaning that hopefully our new services might benefit users outside of Mumbai/NM/Thane. Will keep everyone updated.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Please PM me.
 


Also, we plan to cache a lot of things, such as software updates, so we would effectively have a mirror of (for example) Windows Update - meaning the updates are fast and don't cost you - the users - anything (as in, Windows Updates don't count towards your bandwidth quota). Similarly with Linux distros: plan to mirror the top 20 as per Distrowatch.

And I would be very surprised if other major ISPs in India are not already doing the same.

More news for those watching us though, latest developments might allow us to go live nationwide right from the get go, meaning that hopefully our new services might benefit users outside of Mumbai/NM/Thane. Will keep everyone updated.

What will be the mode of broadband delivery - ftth, dsl ?

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Please PM me.

If you are going to be doing DSL then I have some suggestions.

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If you are going to be doing DSL then I have some suggestions.

Please ignore the question above - I managed to get the answer from your website.

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Reg. Hayai Lightspeed - why 3, 12 and 42Mbps *only* on Wimax? What if I was a user in a building to which you have FTTB but require no more than the 3Mbps plan? Just curious :-).
 
wow, i have not been following this thread lately, please start another thread specifically for hayai internet... and copy/move the relevant posts there! i almost missed out on this :)

hayai is japanese for "fast" heh (i looked it up).

@mgcarley, your thoughts are really what all operators and govt should learn and understand. i have signed up on hayai.in and entered the information you want for your research, wishing you all the best for these (should i say lofty dreams or) goals!

Words of caution though (no offence to you mgcarley) - this is either an exciting proposition or a really elaborate marketing/phishing/scam to get you excited then convince you to send out your information and money in the form of initial deposit for non-existent products. i certainly will NOT be one of the early adopters and certainly will not be the fool in the proverb "a fool and his money are soon parted" if you start asking for initial deposits heh :D

now that we got it out of the way, this could really be a david vs. goliath story... :irock: hayai vs. all the greedy operators and moronic govt officials.

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btw i got the following error while signing up but looks like the signup has worked fine...

Code:
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no it was on the hayai.in site :)
 
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