Blackberry services to be discontinued in India?
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for many years the IB has the power to tap comms without any order,oversight.Now these encryption services have come the govt cannot digest that we cannot tap the people's phone.
The part in bold is partially true, the IB has always required a warrant to tap landline phones, its only recently that the tech that allows tapping cell phones which has outstripped the provisions of the law. So they don't tap a particular cellphone per se but scan a whole list of numbers and this gives the govt instant deniability to a tapping charge. The loophole is that the laws need to be updated in lieu of this increased tech capability.
The part about the IB not having oversight is correct however. The CBI here was not created by any statutes but by an Executive Order in '68 and is presently accountable to nobody.
You might find the following two debates interesting
Is the government guilty of phone tapping?
Do we need tough law to regulate phone tapping?
In western countries they have the right against unreasonable search and seizure(usa 4th amendment,even though the nsa is violating it and is tapping all comms:see hepting vs at&t ).In India we have a privilege under Indian evidence act and criminal procedure code.The IT act 2008 gave govt fiat power to tap all coms violating SC judgment of 1996 which state only in national emergency you can tap or immediate public danger.
Blackberry said that only through judiciary we will follow and that with a court order.(this is how it should be done and is done in USA),you need probable cause to tap someones phone and not mere reasonable suspicion.
Not exactly as the above two debates revealed.
Its sad state of affairs..I hope the govt understands that in a democratic country you cannot violate privacy for the sake of security.
freedom cannot be traded.these are unalienable rights which was there before govts existed and given by god.
only via court order via a judge phone tapping should be done if probable cause exist and not mere suspicion.
If its any consolation senior members of the opposition are more worried that they will be tapped rather than their concern over you & me so maybe they will agitate for more protections.
The other point is the govt does not have a monopoly over tapping, anybody can tap anyone else providing they have the equipment including foreign intelligence and there seems to be no restriction or legal way to prevent it currently
So slowly calls for more restrictions are coming, lets see where it leads..
On July 16 this year, the director general of foreign trade, a division of the Union ministry of commerce, issued a public notification putting off-the-air GSM monitoring devices on the restricted import list. These were the machines first imported by the NTRO and used to illegally tap phones of several key political leaders, including Congress general secretary Digvijay Singh and Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar.
the govt is not honest.
Govt examining phone-tapping issue - India - The Times of India
they can tap phone via fiat and this has to be stopped.this is the only way out.
enact right against unreasonable search and seizure and privacy as a fundamental right.
This all came to a head when outlook published its cover article back in May this year.
The part in bold is partially true, the IB has always required a warrant to tap landline phones, its only recently that the tech that allows tapping cell phones which has outstripped the provisions of the law. So they don't tap a particular cellphone per se but scan a whole list of numbers and this gives the govt instant deniability to a tapping charge. The loophole is that the laws need to be updated in lieu of this increased tech capability.
The part about the IB not having oversight is correct however. The CBI here was not created by any statutes but by an Executive Order in '68 and is presently accountable to nobody.
You might find the following two debates interesting
Is the government guilty of phone tapping?
Do we need tough law to regulate phone tapping?
In western countries they have the right against unreasonable search and seizure(usa 4th amendment,even though the nsa is violating it and is tapping all comms:see hepting vs at&t ).In India we have a privilege under Indian evidence act and criminal procedure code.The IT act 2008 gave govt fiat power to tap all coms violating SC judgment of 1996 which state only in national emergency you can tap or immediate public danger.
Blackberry said that only through judiciary we will follow and that with a court order.(this is how it should be done and is done in USA),you need probable cause to tap someones phone and not mere reasonable suspicion.
Not exactly as the above two debates revealed.
Its sad state of affairs..I hope the govt understands that in a democratic country you cannot violate privacy for the sake of security.
freedom cannot be traded.these are unalienable rights which was there before govts existed and given by god.
only via court order via a judge phone tapping should be done if probable cause exist and not mere suspicion.
If its any consolation senior members of the opposition are more worried that they will be tapped rather than their concern over you & me so maybe they will agitate for more protections.
The other point is the govt does not have a monopoly over tapping, anybody can tap anyone else providing they have the equipment including foreign intelligence and there seems to be no restriction or legal way to prevent it currently
So slowly calls for more restrictions are coming, lets see where it leads..
On July 16 this year, the director general of foreign trade, a division of the Union ministry of commerce, issued a public notification putting off-the-air GSM monitoring devices on the restricted import list. These were the machines first imported by the NTRO and used to illegally tap phones of several key political leaders, including Congress general secretary Digvijay Singh and Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar.
the govt is not honest.
Govt examining phone-tapping issue - India - The Times of India
they can tap phone via fiat and this has to be stopped.this is the only way out.
enact right against unreasonable search and seizure and privacy as a fundamental right.
This all came to a head when outlook published its cover article back in May this year.
W
warthog
The part in bold is partially true, the IB has always required a warrant to tap landline phones, its only recently that the tech that allows tapping cell phones which has outstripped the provisions of the law. So they don't tap a particular cellphone per se but scan a whole list of numbers and this gives the govt instant deniability to a tapping charge. The loophole is that the laws need to be updated in lieu of this increased tech capability.
The part about the IB not having oversight is correct however. The CBI here was not created by any statutes but by an Executive Order in '68 and is presently accountable to nobody.
.
WHAT.do some research.In India the police does not need a warrant and IB has full discertion as to who to tap.THe IT act 2008 makes even more easier for the police to tap.
We dont have right agasint unreasonable search and seizure.
READ MY previous posts.
http://www.privacyinternational.org/survey/phr2003/countries/india.htm
---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------
Intelligence Bureau (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The part about the IB not having oversight is correct however. The CBI here was not created by any statutes but by an Executive Order in '68 and is presently accountable to nobody.
.
WHAT.do some research.In India the police does not need a warrant and IB has full discertion as to who to tap.THe IT act 2008 makes even more easier for the police to tap.
We dont have right agasint unreasonable search and seizure.
READ MY previous posts.
http://www.privacyinternational.org/survey/phr2003/countries/india.htm
---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------
Intelligence Bureau (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Show me where in the privacy intl link, it states that an individual phone (ie landline) can be tapped without warrant ?
It does not, what you seem to have missed is that they get records of transactions during a fixed period of ALL the cellphone traffic in a particular area. This means you cannot accuse the govt they were tapping you per se. Its a loophole, which thanks to those two debates linked above in my post (clearly you've not watched them) made things much clearer than all the extensive posts you've made on this subject.
Also your link states that the law only applies to the govt, private parties can tap one another without any issues whatsoever. This is why ISPs can keep records of all transactions when directed by the govt to do so. Your link is also out-of-date as it does not talk about the IT act 2008.
Anyway, because of that loophole its very easy to get data in mass, even easier with computer comms, as all ISPs have to keep records for 6 months. Because of this loophole even your US laws on unreasonable search & seizure within this context are also circumvented. If ALL data is being logged then where does your complaint about 'unreasonable' behaviour stand ? Nowhere!
It does not, what you seem to have missed is that they get records of transactions during a fixed period of ALL the cellphone traffic in a particular area. This means you cannot accuse the govt they were tapping you per se. Its a loophole, which thanks to those two debates linked above in my post (clearly you've not watched them) made things much clearer than all the extensive posts you've made on this subject.
Also your link states that the law only applies to the govt, private parties can tap one another without any issues whatsoever. This is why ISPs can keep records of all transactions when directed by the govt to do so. Your link is also out-of-date as it does not talk about the IT act 2008.
Anyway, because of that loophole its very easy to get data in mass, even easier with computer comms, as all ISPs have to keep records for 6 months. Because of this loophole even your US laws on unreasonable search & seizure within this context are also circumvented. If ALL data is being logged then where does your complaint about 'unreasonable' behaviour stand ? Nowhere!
W
warthog
here straight from the mouth/the govt dosent need warrant here.
India-BlackBerry deal possible: Canada
Van Loan said India's demand for access to BlackBerry encrypted data for security investigations is the same that Canadian security agencies already possess.
"As you know in Canada, when the police or security agencies present evidence to a judge and obtain a warrant, they are able to intercept telephone calls and other forms of communication," the Canadian trade minister told the media in the presence of Anand Sharma.
India-BlackBerry deal possible: Canada
Van Loan said India's demand for access to BlackBerry encrypted data for security investigations is the same that Canadian security agencies already possess.
"As you know in Canada, when the police or security agencies present evidence to a judge and obtain a warrant, they are able to intercept telephone calls and other forms of communication," the Canadian trade minister told the media in the presence of Anand Sharma.
W
warthog
they donthere the govt tells itself to tap.I would have no prob for tapping if there are privacy safeguards and you need evidence and clearance from a judge to tap with a warrant.just like in USA,Europe,Canada.As i said our Constitution is silent on this right and the IT act 2008 lets the govt to tap phones under any reason..I have already posted aout IT act here.we need a consititonal amendment to have right against unreasonable search and seizure and a privacy act.
W
warthog
here read this
Ottawa anticipates deal between India, RIM on BlackBerry data access - The Globe and Mail
As you know in Canada, when the police or security agencies present evidence to a judge and obtain a warrant, they are able to intercept telephone calls and other forms of communication,” Mr. Van Loan told reporters as Mr. Sharma looked on in silence.
ofcourse they will be silent.all our phones are tapped and mass tapping is happening since telephone came.They got thier asses handed due to digital voip encryption and now we know how blatant tapping is going on.
Ottawa anticipates deal between India, RIM on BlackBerry data access - The Globe and Mail
As you know in Canada, when the police or security agencies present evidence to a judge and obtain a warrant, they are able to intercept telephone calls and other forms of communication,” Mr. Van Loan told reporters as Mr. Sharma looked on in silence.
ofcourse they will be silent.all our phones are tapped and mass tapping is happening since telephone came.They got thier asses handed due to digital voip encryption and now we know how blatant tapping is going on.
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This sums it all Thats what you get to operate in India and how they have come from their “strong stance” I apologize for this rather crude portrayal but this best sums up what Blackberry’s “executives” were crowing about earlier.
Blackberry India:Finally “bending down”
Blackberry India:Finally “bending down”
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