Section 377

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what baffles me that it took the judiciary 59 yrs to interpret that it is a violation of fundamental rights whereas countless encounter killings are going on,anti terror laws,police brutality.It means that the fundamental rights a god damm piece of paper and only suits the govt or the judiciary when they seem fit.
 
In the Deccan Hearld

Point of debate

“Judgment is a blow for fundamental rights.”


While the invalidation by the Delhi high court judgment of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code which criminalised homosexuality has been hailed as the Magnacarta of sexual minorities’ rights, it may not not put an end to the long-continuing debate over the issue. It is likely to get hotter now. The debate had gained in intensity when the Union law minister recently indicated that the government might be open to repeal the Section, which is a legacy of colonial law, with religious leaders of all persuasions and many others raising their voice against it. This had forced the government to take a step backward. The court verdict expectedly has been opposed vehemently, as much as it has been welcomed by the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community and those who support their rights.

The judgment is a blow for the fundamental rights of individuals and an affirmation of the equal rights of sexuality minorities. A sexuality minority is like any other social minority and a democratic and constitutional society has to protect its rights. But law is not always the best tool to change entrenched moral codes and social attitudes. That is why legality is not social acceptance. Homosexuality will legally no longer be an unnatural or deviant behaviour but may continue to be looked upon so, if the serious opposition to the judgment is any indication. In that sense the judgment has actually become part of the divisive debate on the matter. The debate is likely throw up various issues, which need to be addressed, as it has implications in health and medical practices, inheritance etc. It has to be clearly understood that the judgment has not conferred any special privilege on sexual minorities. It has only legalised their rights within the framework of their sexual preferences. Their conduct will be subject to the normal laws that govern the sexual conduct of adults.

The verdict is applicable only to the citizens of Delhi. The LGBT community in the rest of the country has a difficult fight on hand to get their rights legalised. The division within the country, which was reflected in the differences of views within the government also over the issue, is a pointer to that. The moral foundations of society have not broken down with the judgment. In fact homosexuality is not a crime in most countries of the world. But the Central government and states will certainly be sensitive to the issues that come up during the discussion.
 
Lets look at this again shall we.

If the relevant part of 377 was found violative of the constitution in Delhi why will it not be the same anywhere else in the country ?

After all States don't have their own constitutions, there is just the one.

Yes, an appeal is certainly possible at the Supreme Court level but given the mountain of evidence provided i think its unlikely an appeal would be successful. Also consider it was the Supreme Court that reopened this case after it was thrown out of the High Court in 2004, as a mere 'academic' exercise.

I think for all intents & purposes this is a done deal and will quietly be followed elsewhere in the country.

Heh, the wildcard in this picture is Parliament.

I doubt they can touch this ruling but they can certainly introduce legislation to the effect. Bu then it has to pass a test and the way this thing has been argued it would be a useless exercise. As a token gesture it might appease those against gay rights tho.

The beauty of this ruling so far is that is only beholden to the constitution and not any political party.
The High Court of a State only has jurisdiction over the state. In this case the High Court of Delhi only has jurisdiction over Delhi. Having said that, High Court judgments of one state can have persuasive power over another High Court (just as how foreign judgments can have persuasive power over Indian courts) - to the extent that someone at that level has applied his judicial mind and expertise and has come to a decision. But it is not binding on other high courts. So it's open for them to come to a different decision. And there are hundreds of issues where high courts have differed with each other, and the Supreme court has to come in and resolve the issue.

The 2004 Supreme court order has no bearing on what it decides now in appeal (if it goes to appeal). That was only an order that the High court should listen to the matter as per procedure, not any decision on the merits of the case.


what baffles me that it took the judiciary 59 yrs to interpret that it is a violation of fundamental rights whereas countless encounter killings are going on,anti terror laws,police brutality.

It means that the fundamental rights a god damm piece of paper and only suits the govt or the judiciary when they seem fit.
It didn't take the judiciary 59 years, it took them about 5-6 years. As for law, it's an ever-evolving field and as public life and societies get more and more complex, it's a never ending process to develop law - both for the legislature and the judiciary. If you think we could have ever reached a point (or ever will) where we can throw our hands up and say, "Hoohaa, everything in law is now defined and needs no further explanation or clarification" you are being totally naive.

Our courts (especially the Supreme Court) has done a tremendous job of interpreting the Constitution (and saving it from the grubby hands of self-serving politicians). The fact that the simple wording of Article 21 has been enlarged and interpreted to mean a plethora of rights - such as right to not just mere animal life but a life of dignity, a right to breathe fresh air, a right to privacy etc. is a credit to the judicial expertise of our courts.

Also, to correct you s.377 has not been repealed (nor was there any plea to repeal it). The judgment simply declares that it would be unconstitutional to interpret s. 377 to mean as applying against consensual same-sex intercourse. It still applies against bestiality and child abuse and oral and anal sex.
 
In The Hindu

Don’t dither on Section 377, Jul 1 2009

Are the winds of change that seemed to be blowing through the corridors of the central government on the issue of ending legal discrimination against gay sex petering out? Hope that the infamous Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code would be either quickly repealed or suitably amended — raised when the Union Home Ministry boldly described it as an “absurdity in the present day” — have receded with the Law Minister, Veerappa Moily, announcing that the Centre was in no hurry to take such a step. Calls for a parliamentary debate to reach a ‘wider consensus’ on a basic issue of human rights and equal justice are nothing but an excuse to put off a hard decision on ending an obnoxious colonial-era provision that has absolutely no place in the statute book of a modern democratic and secular state. Section 377, which punishes “carnal intercourse against the order of nature” with imprisonment up to 10 years, is not specifically targeted at homosexuality. But by criminalising any penetrative sex that does not lead to reproduction, it has become a weapon in the hands of the police to harass those who have alternative sexual orientations. It also stands out as a symbol of 19th century intolerance.

Suggestions that Section 377 would be reviewed coincided with hundreds of members of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered) community dancing and marching through the streets of five Indian cities last Sunday to mark the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall uprisings in New York, now a universal symbol of gay resistance to obscurantist oppression. What is clear is that the gay rights movement is slowly coming of age in India — emboldened by such developments as President Barack Obama’s promise to bring the “full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans” and his administration’s decision to endorse a United Nations resolution calling for the worldwide decriminalisation of homosexuality. In an age where there is growing acceptance of the idea that LGBTs must be allowed to live in dignity and respect, it is shame that India cannot bring itself to legalise gay behaviour. It is time the United Progressive Alliance did the right thing by either repealing Section 377 or (as some social activists have proposed) amending it so that it excludes consensual sex between all adults, whether of the same sex or otherwise. Having promised to review this provision, the government must not give in to the pressure of religious fundamentalists, moral obscurantists, and others who argue that Indian society is not ready to accept such change. Especially on non-negotiable social issues, governments must lead public opinion — not tail its least enlightened strands or go for the lowest common denominator.

TOI

EDITORIAL COMMENT | Victory For Choice
3 Jul 2009, 0000 hrs IST


In a landmark judgement, the capital's highest court has struck down an archaic provision of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) which criminalises homosexuality. It has ruled that Section 377, in so far as it penalises gay sex between consenting adults, was in violation of fundamental rights. In effect, this means that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders cannot be hauled up anymore in the capital if they are adults, and engage in consensual sex. This is a welcome step forward. The criminalisation of homosexuality is a relic of the past, introduced by the British in 1861. By legalising homosexuality, the Delhi high court has restored the personal freedom and rights of homosexuals, guaranteed to them by the Indian Constitution.

Over the past few days, there has been a renewed debate over Sec 377. When law minister Veerappa Moily recently suggested that Sec 377 could be one of the many outdated laws that needed review, critics and advocates of this law were galvanised. The government was exhorted to give the anachronistic law a burial and usher in an era of greater individual rights. We have repeatedly urged the government in these columns to stop governing our personal lives, and that includes matters of sexual choice.

However, critics of homosexuality - some religious heads as well as self-appointed advocates of 'Indian culture' - kicked up a fuss. Their arguments - that homosexuality is unnatural, against Indian tradition, and that legalising it would lead to a spurt in HIV/AIDS cases - are neither scientific nor logical. If they wish they can exhort their followers to adopt certain sexual preferences, but they cannot argue that alternative preferences be outlawed by the IPC. One set of critics also argued that Sec 377 does not deal with adult homosexuality alone, which is a fact. The law provides cover against child abuse as well. However, we have other laws, like the one governing rape, which could be amended to deal with child abuse and rape committed against men.

As of now, this ruling is effective in Delhi alone. Since Sec 377 is on the concurrent list, states have a say in amendment or repeal of this law. However, this historic ruling could act as a catalyst, encouraging our legislators to shed their blinkers and take a more progressive view on the issue. In 21st century India, it is perverse to penalise adults for their sexual choices.



From the Indian Express

377 steps

Posted: Friday , Jul 03, 2009 at 0410 hrs IST

The Delhi high court was for just a few moments on Thursday awash with tearful celebrations. Liberty is an incremental accomplishment and a grand step has just been taken, the gathered masses within and outside the court premises appeared to agree, as a two-judge bench of the court struck down a remnant of the 19th-century social code still on India’s statute books. Chief Justice A.P. Shah and Justice S. Murlidhar brought to an end years of contentious argument in the court by declaring discrimination on the basis of sexual preference an “antithesis of the right to equality”. They held that those parts of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code that criminalised consensual gay sex between adults were violative of fundamental rights.

By placing their judgment on the pivot of constitutionally guaranteed fundamental rights, the judges have righted the debate on Section 377 to its legal core. Can a modern democracy intrude upon the private domain of consenting adults on the grounds of “moral indignation”? By framing it this way, the judges have cased their judgment in the very constitutional framework from which every Indian derives individual freedoms. In their words: “In the present case, two Constitutional rights — right to personal liberty and right to equality — relied upon are fundamental human rights which belong to individuals simply by virtue of their humanity, independent of any utilitarian consideration.” There is a need to linger longer on the wording of the judgment because the possibilities of appeal are already being articulated. In any case, the territorial implications of the judgment — that is, whether it applies outside of the Delhi high court’s jurisdiction — are automatically raised, and so the exact status of the read-down parts of Section 377 in different parts of India will have to be determined.

This is why the court’s asides to the Central government are crucial. They cited the additional solicitor general’s submission that the courts refrain from encroaching on Parliament’s domain, and said that the judiciary is constituted as the “ultimate interpreter” of the Constitution. The judgment of the Delhi high court may not be the last word on the matter. But the government, whose ministers just last week retracted statements seen to be proactive on a re-look at Section 377, must read it for its enlightened constitutionalism.




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So it's open for them to come to a different decision. And there are hundreds of issues where high courts have differed with each other, and the Supreme court has to come in and resolve the issue.


Even on matters of the constitution ?

The Centre, the Congress and the BJP played safe and declined immediate comment — law minister Veerappa Moily confined himself to saying “we need to examine the details of the judgment.

The Samajwadi Party, which has considerable support among the minorities, opposed the order. The CPM supported decriminalisation.

The battle had brought all shades of prejudices out into the open. Hardliners such as B.P. Singhal joined issue in court, so did the little-known JACK -- the Joint Action Committee, Kunnur. JACK’s Purshottam Mulloli now plans to go to the Supreme Court against the high court judgment, as do many religious groups.

Till then, the beleaguered community can breathe easy.

Source
 
Even on matters of the constitution ?
Sure, why not? After all the Delhi High court for example is neither superior nor inferior than say the Bombay High Court or the Chennai High Court or the Punjab & Haryana High Court.

You can think of it as class teachers. While the Class teacher of Section A decides that children can't wear caps in her class, the Class teacher of Section B decides they can. They can be influenced / persuaded by what the other is doing, but Teacher A cannot tell Teacher B that he/she has to follow him/her. So Class A students don't wear caps, but section B students do. However, if the Principal (i.e. Supreme Court) steps in and says they can or can't wear caps, it applies to all of them and they can't disobey.
 
OH noesTHey have destroyed the family and culture as we know it.
I hope shiv sena does some rukus.

homos=evil to this country and this planet.they should be sent to psychiatric evaluation.There is no excuse for legalizing or even recognizing it.:madness:

I find your comments extremely disturbing and homopobic. Please don't post such offensive comments over here. It is important to remember that these people are humans too. I think you are so consumed by HATE , that it is u who needs counselling and treatment.
 


Every human has its own privacy and equal rights. So being Gay is not a crime. None of them are going to Gay as their wish, gods created them like this. :cool2:

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OH noesTHey have destroyed the family and culture as we know it.
I hope shiv sena does some rukus.

homos=evil to this country and this planet.they should be sent to psychiatric evaluation.There is no excuse for legalizing or even recognizing it.:madness:

Wrong concept.

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I find your comments extremely disturbing and homopobic. Please don't post such offensive comments over here. It is important to remember that these people are humans too. I think you are so consumed by HATE , that it is u who needs counselling and treatment.

If he goes to the clinic, what did he do, if the doctor is a Gay. :O

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you dont get it.Imagine a normal indian family is going to a beach and they see 2 males hand in hand together and the children ask their parents that what are they doing.

what are you going to tell your children



if we gone to beach, all the childrens are looking at the Sea shore, not the other people and ask abt the parents that, these people are Gay, Stright or Lesbion. :hysterical:
 
Sure, why not? After all the Delhi High court for example is neither superior nor inferior than say the Bombay High Court or the Chennai High Court or the Punjab & Haryana High Court.


Ok, so how does this play out then ?

Does the Naz Foundation have to petition the same case in the different State High Courts ie fight the same battle repeatedly ?

or do the judges of the various courts just make ex parte decisions.
 
There is an article on this in TOI

Will Delhi HC gay order apply across India? - India - The Times of India

In Kusum Ingots vs Union of India, a three-judge bench of the Supreme Court had ruled: “An order passed on writ petition questioning the constitutionality of a Parliamentary Act, whether interim or final, will have effect throughout the territory of India subject of course to the applicability of the Act.”

Thursday’s Delhi high court verdict is also on the constitutionality of an Act of Parliament, which has jurisdiction throughout the country, and the Central government was anyway party to the case. Since the Indian Penal Code 1860 is applicable throughout the country, except Jammu and Kashmir, the final order of the Delhi high court questioning the constitutionality of Section 377 will have effect far beyond the capital, in terms of the 2004 SC judgment.
 
“An order passed on writ petition questioning the constitutionality of a Parliamentary Act, whether interim or final, will have effect throughout the territory of India subject of course to the applicability of the Act.”

Thursday’s Delhi high court verdict is also on the constitutionality of an Act of Parliament, which has jurisdiction throughout the country, and the Central government was anyway party to the case.

Right, this was my understanding as well.
 

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