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TRAI finally talks about Fair Usage Policy
- Thread starter Sushubh
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mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
hate those FUPs
Way to add to the conversation. Assuming that unlimited is basically a farce, what would you consider a reasonable FUP?
---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------
so from 1st January 2011, will we get 512 kbps as minimum speed. what about the tariffs?????
from what i see, it is just a recommendation and not a rule.
and ISPs would still be able to offer slower speed plans as long as they are not labeled broadband.
All it says is what can and can not be labeled broadband, so don't expect your after-FUP speeds to be increasing to 512kbit/s anytime soon, and @admin is right, it's just a recommendation - it has not been legislated yet.
The crucial difference here is the terminology: "broadband" and not "internet access" - broadband is merely a word to describe what kind of internet access you're getting. So while India talks about "minimum broadband speeds", Finland talks about "minimum internet access speeds" - subtle, yet crucial difference in wording and would have a significant impact on the effects of any legislature.
Of course, Finland never really had any problems anyway, even in the remote parts of Lapland. I managed to find ONE spot in the entire country where my data performance was only GPRS speeds and not 3.5G, and you can get FTTx pretty much anywhere you want, even at your Mökki (Summer Cottage) in the middle of Keski-Suomi (central Finland).
I can't think of anywhere in India to compare that to, but it's rather remote: you'd have to walk for hours through the forest to find another person, if you get what I mean. Oddly, in the same place, we had trouble even getting an analogue TV signal for our USB TV-tuner to watch the Formula 1.
Way to add to the conversation. Assuming that unlimited is basically a farce, what would you consider a reasonable FUP?
---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------
so from 1st January 2011, will we get 512 kbps as minimum speed. what about the tariffs?????
from what i see, it is just a recommendation and not a rule.
and ISPs would still be able to offer slower speed plans as long as they are not labeled broadband.
All it says is what can and can not be labeled broadband, so don't expect your after-FUP speeds to be increasing to 512kbit/s anytime soon, and @admin is right, it's just a recommendation - it has not been legislated yet.
The crucial difference here is the terminology: "broadband" and not "internet access" - broadband is merely a word to describe what kind of internet access you're getting. So while India talks about "minimum broadband speeds", Finland talks about "minimum internet access speeds" - subtle, yet crucial difference in wording and would have a significant impact on the effects of any legislature.
Of course, Finland never really had any problems anyway, even in the remote parts of Lapland. I managed to find ONE spot in the entire country where my data performance was only GPRS speeds and not 3.5G, and you can get FTTx pretty much anywhere you want, even at your Mökki (Summer Cottage) in the middle of Keski-Suomi (central Finland).
I can't think of anywhere in India to compare that to, but it's rather remote: you'd have to walk for hours through the forest to find another person, if you get what I mean. Oddly, in the same place, we had trouble even getting an analogue TV signal for our USB TV-tuner to watch the Formula 1.
iitmanojit
Advance User
@mgcarley @admin 100GB per month @2MBps Rs-500...
It may be too cheap in some eyes, but that's my choice. Its better to build resource and infrastructure for supporting that resource.
---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 AM ----------
If I can do anything in future after becoming one of the Indian Policy-makers, I will make my India most resourceful, data enriched, fastest connected country/part of Earth.
It may be too cheap in some eyes, but that's my choice. Its better to build resource and infrastructure for supporting that resource.
---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 AM ----------
If I can do anything in future after becoming one of the Indian Policy-makers, I will make my India most resourceful, data enriched, fastest connected country/part of Earth.
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
@mgcarley @admin 100GB per month @2MBps Rs-500...
It may be too cheap in some eyes, but that's my choice. Its better to build resource and infrastructure for supporting that resource.
If you're going to limit the amount of data you can transfer, why limit the speed as well? That's the sort of faulty thinking that's helped get India in to this mess in the first place.
Why not just say "100GB for Rs500, thereafter a speed of XXX" and suggest ISPs deliver the data at whatever speed the line supports? So if you're on ADSL like most of the country, that [line speed] could range from anything between 2 and 20 mbit/s depending on the condition of the lines and distance from the exchange.
If I can do anything in future after becoming one of the Indian Policy-makers, I will make my India most resourceful, data enriched, fastest connected country/part of Earth.
Despite your faulty thinking in the first paragraph, I could get behind that. Let me know when you need to hear from my lobbyist
It may be too cheap in some eyes, but that's my choice. Its better to build resource and infrastructure for supporting that resource.
If you're going to limit the amount of data you can transfer, why limit the speed as well? That's the sort of faulty thinking that's helped get India in to this mess in the first place.
Why not just say "100GB for Rs500, thereafter a speed of XXX" and suggest ISPs deliver the data at whatever speed the line supports? So if you're on ADSL like most of the country, that [line speed] could range from anything between 2 and 20 mbit/s depending on the condition of the lines and distance from the exchange.
If I can do anything in future after becoming one of the Indian Policy-makers, I will make my India most resourceful, data enriched, fastest connected country/part of Earth.
Despite your faulty thinking in the first paragraph, I could get behind that. Let me know when you need to hear from my lobbyist
iitmanojit
Advance User
@mgcarley Thanks for showing what my fault is. Rate limit is choosed by me because of home usage point of view. Look I cant let anyone abuse 20MBps for just downloading pirated movies. Plan must be versatile. Such as Institutional/Organizational 500GB per month at whatever the speed for Rs-1000pm. As we are currently in much amateur place of Internet era comparing to "Uncle Sam" or "Phinland", we need to make the infrastructure more robust then must talk about else. Note: Additional per GB cost may be Rs-5.
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
@mgcarley Thanks for showing what my fault is. Rate limit is choosed by me because of home usage point of view. Look I cant let anyone abuse 20MBps for just downloading pirated movies.
Again, faulty thinking. High Speed Internet isn't just for pirating movies, although if I'm paying for data (rather than unlimited), I reserve the right to do whatever the hell I want with it, and if that's downloading movies (illegally or legitimately) or watching high definition porn, then so be it (well, ok, maybe not the porn thing because of the restrictions on such content in India, but you know what I mean).
In my view, 30mbit/s is about all that is *needed* for home usage... per person in the house, of course. In my personal experience, it's quite difficult to consume more than that single-handedly with the current applications on the market.
Plan must be versatile. Such as Institutional/Organizational 500GB per month at whatever the speed for Rs-1000pm.
Businesses pay more for communications. This is one of those universal truths. It might not be much more in some countries, but the main reason for the higher prices is that higher priorities and quality of service is put on a business account as compared to a residential one - in some cases, an SLA is even included, and that in itself is worth the additional cost to many businesses.
As we are currently in much amateur place of Internet era comparing to "Uncle Sam" or "Phinland", we need to make the infrastructure more robust then must talk about else.
I think you're losing my support now with the "Uncle Sam" and the "Phinland". Spell it properly - it's almost as bad as "txt spk". Yes, I'm a grammar Nazi - deal with it. Anyway, Internet in the USA is a very bad thing to aspire after. Scandinavia, France, Netherlands, Portugal, HK, Singapore, Japan... these are places I can satisfy my lust for properly fast, cheap internet access.
There isn't really anything *wrong* with the current infrastructure in India, per se, apart from the fragmented last mile and the fact that everybody has to lay their own, which is why I might have Tata in my society and the next society might have Reliance only. Being that I might live in a building supplied by Tata and my neighbours might be supplied by Reliance, I can't then go ahead and subscribe to Reliance, or Airtel.
THIS IS NOT COMPETITION. It might look like it, but it isn't. Despite the number of providers around, there still isn't really any choice as to which ISP you can take services from: you've for **NL or your cablewala or one of the private players MAYBE if they've bothered laying cables to your society.
If BSNL/MTNL opened up the local loop, all this BS could go away and everybody would be able to offer their various products over the same copper, which would make plans more comparable and give people an actual choice as to whom they subscribe to and create actual competition in the market and prices would invariably come down. It's happened in every other country where LLU has happened, so in my opinion, it's now India's turn.
I think in many cases that I've observed, MTNLs lines would seem to support 6-10mbit/s quite comfortably, sometimes even more than that. BSNL is hard to tell simply because of their vast coverage area but I don't think there's any reason that their lines would be much slower - after all, DSL only works properly up to a certain distance anyway, so if the line quality is so bad or too far, you won't get slow speeds, you just won't get any service whatsoever, and if they provision the bandwidth on their trunks properly instead of trying to use a line that supports 8mbit/s only to supply a whole bloody village, then perhaps some of the other issues would clear up too.
Note: Additional per GB cost may be Rs-5.
Assuming that the wholesale costs and costs of the last-mile were sufficiently low, there is no problem with this. Our highest per-GB price on a data plan at the moment is Rs14.71 - to my knowledge, that's about Rs185 cheaper than our nearest competitor.
Again, faulty thinking. High Speed Internet isn't just for pirating movies, although if I'm paying for data (rather than unlimited), I reserve the right to do whatever the hell I want with it, and if that's downloading movies (illegally or legitimately) or watching high definition porn, then so be it (well, ok, maybe not the porn thing because of the restrictions on such content in India, but you know what I mean).
In my view, 30mbit/s is about all that is *needed* for home usage... per person in the house, of course. In my personal experience, it's quite difficult to consume more than that single-handedly with the current applications on the market.
Plan must be versatile. Such as Institutional/Organizational 500GB per month at whatever the speed for Rs-1000pm.
Businesses pay more for communications. This is one of those universal truths. It might not be much more in some countries, but the main reason for the higher prices is that higher priorities and quality of service is put on a business account as compared to a residential one - in some cases, an SLA is even included, and that in itself is worth the additional cost to many businesses.
As we are currently in much amateur place of Internet era comparing to "Uncle Sam" or "Phinland", we need to make the infrastructure more robust then must talk about else.
I think you're losing my support now with the "Uncle Sam" and the "Phinland". Spell it properly - it's almost as bad as "txt spk". Yes, I'm a grammar Nazi - deal with it. Anyway, Internet in the USA is a very bad thing to aspire after. Scandinavia, France, Netherlands, Portugal, HK, Singapore, Japan... these are places I can satisfy my lust for properly fast, cheap internet access.
There isn't really anything *wrong* with the current infrastructure in India, per se, apart from the fragmented last mile and the fact that everybody has to lay their own, which is why I might have Tata in my society and the next society might have Reliance only. Being that I might live in a building supplied by Tata and my neighbours might be supplied by Reliance, I can't then go ahead and subscribe to Reliance, or Airtel.
THIS IS NOT COMPETITION. It might look like it, but it isn't. Despite the number of providers around, there still isn't really any choice as to which ISP you can take services from: you've for **NL or your cablewala or one of the private players MAYBE if they've bothered laying cables to your society.
If BSNL/MTNL opened up the local loop, all this BS could go away and everybody would be able to offer their various products over the same copper, which would make plans more comparable and give people an actual choice as to whom they subscribe to and create actual competition in the market and prices would invariably come down. It's happened in every other country where LLU has happened, so in my opinion, it's now India's turn.
I think in many cases that I've observed, MTNLs lines would seem to support 6-10mbit/s quite comfortably, sometimes even more than that. BSNL is hard to tell simply because of their vast coverage area but I don't think there's any reason that their lines would be much slower - after all, DSL only works properly up to a certain distance anyway, so if the line quality is so bad or too far, you won't get slow speeds, you just won't get any service whatsoever, and if they provision the bandwidth on their trunks properly instead of trying to use a line that supports 8mbit/s only to supply a whole bloody village, then perhaps some of the other issues would clear up too.
Note: Additional per GB cost may be Rs-5.
Assuming that the wholesale costs and costs of the last-mile were sufficiently low, there is no problem with this. Our highest per-GB price on a data plan at the moment is Rs14.71 - to my knowledge, that's about Rs185 cheaper than our nearest competitor.
I managed to find ONE spot in the entire country where my data performance was only GPRS speeds and not 3.5G, and you can get FTTx pretty much anywhere you want, even at your Mökki (Summer Cottage) in the middle of Keski-Suomi (central Finland).
Hey Matthew, its time you got your reindeer moving and bring me my Christmas present. A nice shiny Hayai connection.
Hey Matthew, its time you got your reindeer moving and bring me my Christmas present. A nice shiny Hayai connection.
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
Hey Matthew, its time you got your reindeer moving and bring me my Christmas present. A nice shiny Hayai connection.
With the air quality in Mumbai, I think the shiny yellow cables will go a dull bleeaarrrghhh colour quite quickly... so long as the light keeps shining through them though, it would be OK
---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
I can has a conference call with Alcatel Lucent (India) tomorrow re: bigger, better, faster, stronger, larger coverage area in less time and more gigabits than I can throw a stick at in the morning
With the air quality in Mumbai, I think the shiny yellow cables will go a dull bleeaarrrghhh colour quite quickly... so long as the light keeps shining through them though, it would be OK
---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
I can has a conference call with Alcatel Lucent (India) tomorrow re: bigger, better, faster, stronger, larger coverage area in less time and more gigabits than I can throw a stick at in the morning
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