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An open letter to Hayai and MG Carley!
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mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
Wtf? Do u understand what you're speaking? Average usage around 200GB for 3 months?
Why will anyone pay 2k PM for 5mbit/s Speeds and download 100 GB or 200GB per month, Instead, Its better u pay 900 PM and enjoy Speeds up to 10mbit/s From Fivenet But only thing u should suffer is their Speed varying from 4mbit/s to 9Mbit/s.
I should point out, once again, there is no 200GB limit. It's just an idea as to what we think people are going to use. We could be horribly wrong (whether in our favour or not).
So far Fivenet's 10mbit/s plans are supposed to be "holiday promotions", although it looks like they're going to become the norm eventually.
I'm sure as our customer base grows, most people's usage will come down to much smaller amounts of international traffic because everyone will be using DC++ or our various internal resources, just the same as Fivenet.
Here in my city Isp's are offering 6mbit/s Flat rate without Fup for 2500 PM. Even If i download 2TB They Wont mind.. But surely they will face network congestion problems once a while..!!
Hate to burst your bubble, but Beam doesn't offer 6mbit/s unlimited without a FUP... and also 6mbit/s won't do 2TB a month (yes, I'm being anal retentive here by pointing out it would only do about 1.8).
I'm quite sure users who do 2TB a month on a regular basis would face some consequence eventually - even ISPs in western countries (Europe, Canada, Korea etc) where usage is implicitely advertised as "unlimited" would mind that kind of usage.
I think so long as we "keep up with the times", then even if we one day have to implement a FUP of some kind, then it should be not only reasonable for consumers but should increase every 12-18 months as usage goes up and costs come down, rather than following the trend of existing players whose FUP limits seem to be creeping down.
ISPs in various countries (even say, Singapore) call their FUP simply "reasonable use". Why can't we? And why can't we suggest to users who want to use their net heavily that they should opt for a higher-speed plan? That seems to be the basic practice everywhere else in the world, and just because India is a country of self-professed "cheapskates" (no disrespect intended), why should it work any differently in India, especially since everyone often compares the speed of Indian Internet to that which is available elsewhere?
Even if the idea of "reasonable use" varies from person to person, there should be a ballpark figure that can be agreed on as being "sufficient" given the price and speed of a given plan, and realistically, any number we throw out there would probably receive criticism from somebody - if I'd said that the limit was 1.5TB on the 5mbit/s plan, someone would have surely commented about it before doing the math!
Even though the numbers that have been put out there are merely ideas/guidelines/whatever you want to call them, I'm always open to debate on whether these are considered to be fair numbers - again, considering that they're not hard limits AND are the guideline average for all users on the plan. But again, law of averages suggests we're not really going to have to deal with too many cases of abuse, whether the limit was 200GB, 500GB, 1000GB or even more.
The question always remains: "how much is enough?" At least we have plans for users to upgrade to at fairly reasonable cost, and for those that do want to spend equal to 100 euros a month we can provide the same kind of service they'd get in Europe at that price, rather than opting for say, BSNL's 100mbit/s FTTH service for 1300 euros a month! Bringing European quality and pricing is and always has been our goal, and now that we've managed to squeeze in everything in to match prices found through most of Europe, I can say that we're 95% of the way toward achieving that goal.
...now if only we can launch the bloody service and I'll finally be satisfied that I will have achieved what I set out to do 2 years ago. From there, we can only improve on the service, the availability and add value.
---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
And finally I decided not to join conversations in hayai threads unless the service starts.. bye to hayai threads for a year or So.. I am not in a mood to talk about the imaginary service!
I sincerely hope it will not be a year. I'll be a ragged old man if that is the case - probably with 1 foot in the door of my local insane asylum
Why will anyone pay 2k PM for 5mbit/s Speeds and download 100 GB or 200GB per month, Instead, Its better u pay 900 PM and enjoy Speeds up to 10mbit/s From Fivenet But only thing u should suffer is their Speed varying from 4mbit/s to 9Mbit/s.
I should point out, once again, there is no 200GB limit. It's just an idea as to what we think people are going to use. We could be horribly wrong (whether in our favour or not).
So far Fivenet's 10mbit/s plans are supposed to be "holiday promotions", although it looks like they're going to become the norm eventually.
I'm sure as our customer base grows, most people's usage will come down to much smaller amounts of international traffic because everyone will be using DC++ or our various internal resources, just the same as Fivenet.
Here in my city Isp's are offering 6mbit/s Flat rate without Fup for 2500 PM. Even If i download 2TB They Wont mind.. But surely they will face network congestion problems once a while..!!
Hate to burst your bubble, but Beam doesn't offer 6mbit/s unlimited without a FUP... and also 6mbit/s won't do 2TB a month (yes, I'm being anal retentive here by pointing out it would only do about 1.8).
I'm quite sure users who do 2TB a month on a regular basis would face some consequence eventually - even ISPs in western countries (Europe, Canada, Korea etc) where usage is implicitely advertised as "unlimited" would mind that kind of usage.
I think so long as we "keep up with the times", then even if we one day have to implement a FUP of some kind, then it should be not only reasonable for consumers but should increase every 12-18 months as usage goes up and costs come down, rather than following the trend of existing players whose FUP limits seem to be creeping down.
ISPs in various countries (even say, Singapore) call their FUP simply "reasonable use". Why can't we? And why can't we suggest to users who want to use their net heavily that they should opt for a higher-speed plan? That seems to be the basic practice everywhere else in the world, and just because India is a country of self-professed "cheapskates" (no disrespect intended), why should it work any differently in India, especially since everyone often compares the speed of Indian Internet to that which is available elsewhere?
Even if the idea of "reasonable use" varies from person to person, there should be a ballpark figure that can be agreed on as being "sufficient" given the price and speed of a given plan, and realistically, any number we throw out there would probably receive criticism from somebody - if I'd said that the limit was 1.5TB on the 5mbit/s plan, someone would have surely commented about it before doing the math!
Even though the numbers that have been put out there are merely ideas/guidelines/whatever you want to call them, I'm always open to debate on whether these are considered to be fair numbers - again, considering that they're not hard limits AND are the guideline average for all users on the plan. But again, law of averages suggests we're not really going to have to deal with too many cases of abuse, whether the limit was 200GB, 500GB, 1000GB or even more.
The question always remains: "how much is enough?" At least we have plans for users to upgrade to at fairly reasonable cost, and for those that do want to spend equal to 100 euros a month we can provide the same kind of service they'd get in Europe at that price, rather than opting for say, BSNL's 100mbit/s FTTH service for 1300 euros a month! Bringing European quality and pricing is and always has been our goal, and now that we've managed to squeeze in everything in to match prices found through most of Europe, I can say that we're 95% of the way toward achieving that goal.
...now if only we can launch the bloody service and I'll finally be satisfied that I will have achieved what I set out to do 2 years ago. From there, we can only improve on the service, the availability and add value.
---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
And finally I decided not to join conversations in hayai threads unless the service starts.. bye to hayai threads for a year or So.. I am not in a mood to talk about the imaginary service!
I sincerely hope it will not be a year. I'll be a ragged old man if that is the case - probably with 1 foot in the door of my local insane asylum
My take on the plans are a little different.
I am a complete fan of their data plans first of all no doubt but when it comes to flat rate ones i differ....
Lets consider a scenario.
1999 @ 5Mbit @ 200GB (i know i know it is expected usage not an FUP)
1999 @ 100 Mbit @ 145GB (taking 550+10*GB)
I find the data plan more appealing and value for money than the fixed rate one. And not to forget if u go for less than 145GB u will pay only a proportionate amount for the amt. of GB u consumed ...for ex. u could be out for holiday/exam time when u would like to consume less and also pay less.
And for the flat rate plans....i know 200GB is not a strict limit but an expected usage from u. You could 1 TB if u like but that is i think based on the belief that some would consume more and some less.
But according to human behavior i think everyone would start to consume more thinking others consume less. So basically u are left at the lurch of others.
Taking an another view.. i think mg said that u would be given 6 months to either lower ur usage or migrate to an higher plan. So basically u can take it as a slab for 6 months.
lets consider
1st month : 1TB.. u get a call
next 5 months:200GB
ur average for six months 333GB.
Now it is upto mg to decide what will he do in such a scenario bcoz a customer can go a little over without dodging the rules.
This particular policy is more or less like comcast's policy in USA.httphttp://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP.html://
THIS IS MY THESIS. I HOPE KIDS BORN IN 1992 ARE HAPPY WITH IT.
:bowtoyou::bowtoyou::bowtoyou:
I am a complete fan of their data plans first of all no doubt but when it comes to flat rate ones i differ....
Lets consider a scenario.
1999 @ 5Mbit @ 200GB (i know i know it is expected usage not an FUP)
1999 @ 100 Mbit @ 145GB (taking 550+10*GB)
I find the data plan more appealing and value for money than the fixed rate one. And not to forget if u go for less than 145GB u will pay only a proportionate amount for the amt. of GB u consumed ...for ex. u could be out for holiday/exam time when u would like to consume less and also pay less.
And for the flat rate plans....i know 200GB is not a strict limit but an expected usage from u. You could 1 TB if u like but that is i think based on the belief that some would consume more and some less.
But according to human behavior i think everyone would start to consume more thinking others consume less. So basically u are left at the lurch of others.
Taking an another view.. i think mg said that u would be given 6 months to either lower ur usage or migrate to an higher plan. So basically u can take it as a slab for 6 months.
lets consider
1st month : 1TB.. u get a call
next 5 months:200GB
ur average for six months 333GB.
Now it is upto mg to decide what will he do in such a scenario bcoz a customer can go a little over without dodging the rules.
This particular policy is more or less like comcast's policy in USA.httphttp://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP.html://
THIS IS MY THESIS. I HOPE KIDS BORN IN 1992 ARE HAPPY WITH IT.
:bowtoyou::bowtoyou::bowtoyou:
Hate to burst your bubble, but Beam doesn't offer 6mbit/s unlimited without a Fair Usage Policy... and also 6mbit/s won't do 2TB a month (yes, I'm being anal retentive here by pointing out it would only do about 1.8).
I'm quite sure users who do 2TB a month on a regular basis would face some consequence eventually - even ISPs in western countries (Europe, Canada, Korea etc) where usage is implicitely advertised as "unlimited" would mind that kind of usage.
I was not referring beam in any way here, I was talking about a isp which is like local and has its coverage to few areas told me that 6mbps for 2500 and No Fup at all...
I'm quite sure users who do 2TB a month on a regular basis would face some consequence eventually - even ISPs in western countries (Europe, Canada, Korea etc) where usage is implicitely advertised as "unlimited" would mind that kind of usage.
I was not referring beam in any way here, I was talking about a isp which is like local and has its coverage to few areas told me that 6mbps for 2500 and No Fup at all...
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
My take on the plans are a little different.
I am a complete fan of their data plans first of all no doubt but when it comes to flat rate ones i differ....
Lets consider a scenario.
1999 @ 5Mbit @ 200GB (i know i know it is expected usage not an FUP)
1999 @ 100 Mbit @ 145GB (taking 550+10*GB)
I find the data plan more appealing and value for money than the fixed rate one. And not to forget if u go for less than 145GB u will pay only a proportionate amount for the amt. of GB u consumed ...for ex. u could be out for holiday/exam time when u would like to consume less and also pay less.
Yes, we have tried to make the data plans rather attractively priced - they work out nicely for both you and us. No speed limit, and you get to tell us how much data you think you want. This is AWESOME information when it comes to planning network capacity.
And for the flat rate plans....i know 200GB is not a strict limit but an expected usage from u. You could 1 TB if u like but that is i think based on the belief that some would consume more and some less.
But according to human behavior i think everyone would start to consume more thinking others consume less. So basically u are left at the lurch of others.
Well.. no, not really. Some people just like having the comfort of having a flat-fee per month irrespective of their usage. Here, access is always offered at whatever speed the line can handle (so, up to 24mbit/s). Telecom NZ used to have a flat-rate plan whereby speeds were artificially slowed during "peak periods", but as I understand, the experience was dreadful, and the plan was discontinued last year. The only other ISP to offer flat-rate access has a very bad reputation, so it causes me to be wary.
Taking an another view.. i think mg said that u would be given 6 months to either lower ur usage or migrate to an higher plan. So basically u can take it as a slab for 6 months.
3 months.
lets consider
1st month : 1TB.. u get a call
next 5 months:200GB
ur average for six months 333GB.
Now it is upto mg to decide what will he do in such a scenario bcoz a customer can go a little over without dodging the rules.
True, but for those who are really heavy downloaders we would try and push them towards obtaining content from within the Hayai Zone - reducing their usage, our costs, and causing them to affect the average less.
If worst came to worst, we'd have to throttle certain types of traffic on the flat-rate plans, while leaving all other traffic untouched. However, on the flipside, if it turns out that 200GB is too high of an average for the 5mbit/s plan (and I hope that it does turn out that way), then we would reduce the prices for all new and existing customer of each plan to match what the typical usage levels are. Win-win.
This particular policy is more or less like comcast's policy in USA.Comcast Acceptable Use Policy for High-Speed Internet
I think the main difference between us and them is that our number suggest 200GB on the lowest plan, but (for the sake of comparison) over 1TB on the highest plan. Comcast usage limits suggest 250GB flat, irrespective of which plan you're on, which means that unlike them, we can scale up.
---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
I was not referring beam in any way here, I was talking about a isp which is like local and has its coverage to few areas told me that 6mbps for 2500 and No Fup at all...
I assumed Beam because of your location. Which ISP?
I am a complete fan of their data plans first of all no doubt but when it comes to flat rate ones i differ....
Lets consider a scenario.
1999 @ 5Mbit @ 200GB (i know i know it is expected usage not an FUP)
1999 @ 100 Mbit @ 145GB (taking 550+10*GB)
I find the data plan more appealing and value for money than the fixed rate one. And not to forget if u go for less than 145GB u will pay only a proportionate amount for the amt. of GB u consumed ...for ex. u could be out for holiday/exam time when u would like to consume less and also pay less.
Yes, we have tried to make the data plans rather attractively priced - they work out nicely for both you and us. No speed limit, and you get to tell us how much data you think you want. This is AWESOME information when it comes to planning network capacity.
And for the flat rate plans....i know 200GB is not a strict limit but an expected usage from u. You could 1 TB if u like but that is i think based on the belief that some would consume more and some less.
But according to human behavior i think everyone would start to consume more thinking others consume less. So basically u are left at the lurch of others.
Well.. no, not really. Some people just like having the comfort of having a flat-fee per month irrespective of their usage. Here, access is always offered at whatever speed the line can handle (so, up to 24mbit/s). Telecom NZ used to have a flat-rate plan whereby speeds were artificially slowed during "peak periods", but as I understand, the experience was dreadful, and the plan was discontinued last year. The only other ISP to offer flat-rate access has a very bad reputation, so it causes me to be wary.
Taking an another view.. i think mg said that u would be given 6 months to either lower ur usage or migrate to an higher plan. So basically u can take it as a slab for 6 months.
3 months.
lets consider
1st month : 1TB.. u get a call
next 5 months:200GB
ur average for six months 333GB.
Now it is upto mg to decide what will he do in such a scenario bcoz a customer can go a little over without dodging the rules.
True, but for those who are really heavy downloaders we would try and push them towards obtaining content from within the Hayai Zone - reducing their usage, our costs, and causing them to affect the average less.
If worst came to worst, we'd have to throttle certain types of traffic on the flat-rate plans, while leaving all other traffic untouched. However, on the flipside, if it turns out that 200GB is too high of an average for the 5mbit/s plan (and I hope that it does turn out that way), then we would reduce the prices for all new and existing customer of each plan to match what the typical usage levels are. Win-win.
This particular policy is more or less like comcast's policy in USA.Comcast Acceptable Use Policy for High-Speed Internet
I think the main difference between us and them is that our number suggest 200GB on the lowest plan, but (for the sake of comparison) over 1TB on the highest plan. Comcast usage limits suggest 250GB flat, irrespective of which plan you're on, which means that unlike them, we can scale up.
---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
I was not referring beam in any way here, I was talking about a isp which is like local and has its coverage to few areas told me that 6mbps for 2500 and No Fup at all...
I assumed Beam because of your location. Which ISP?
I think that logically speaking the first two or three months users may d/l a lot as like me they probably have lots of torrent in q mode. But after that expect users to slow down for diff reasons apart from the storage capacity factor. I myself expect to have high d/l in the 1st month or two and after that slow down and will be uploading more than d/l. This considering the fact that i have 4 1TB hdd connected internally in Raid mode and 3 500GB and two 120GB connected externally. Only diff i expect for me is the movies size as now i d/l 720p of sizes 1.5 - 2.5 GB and 1080p 2.2 - 3.5 GB whereas if i get a hayai connection i would go for 4GB and 8-9 GB ones. Actually i expect my d/l to come down below 200GBbtw i was stating the above in regards to the Hayai 10MBPS plan and not the 5MBPS one But then again there may be few who might not slow down.
I think that logically speaking the first two or three months users may d/l a lot as like me they probably have lots of torrent in q mode. But after that expect users to slow down for diff reasons apart from the storage capacity factor.
I myself expect to have high d/l in the 1st month or two and after that slow down and will be uploading more than d/l. This considering the fact that i have 4 1TB hdd connected internally in Raid mode and 3 500GB and two 120GB connected externally. Only diff i expect for me is the movies size as now i d/l 720p of sizes 1.5 - 2.5 GB and 1080p 2.2 - 3.5 GB whereas if i get a hayai connection i would go for 4GB and 8-9 GB ones. Actually i expect my d/l to come down below 200GB
But then again there may be few who might not slow down.
For reasons you mentioned, the usage will be high for the first few months, but eventually, all users come down. Taking my example, first month of obtaining 2 mbps was what to download and what not. But, now that the plan is old, the excitement dies down.
Taking another example, when I was in 10th standard I got my 2 wheeler. For the next few months I used to tour the city, driving 20 km a day and causing a headache to my parents for increasing the petrol usage.
Now my petrol use after 3 years, has settled to around 6 km/day.
I myself expect to have high d/l in the 1st month or two and after that slow down and will be uploading more than d/l. This considering the fact that i have 4 1TB hdd connected internally in Raid mode and 3 500GB and two 120GB connected externally. Only diff i expect for me is the movies size as now i d/l 720p of sizes 1.5 - 2.5 GB and 1080p 2.2 - 3.5 GB whereas if i get a hayai connection i would go for 4GB and 8-9 GB ones. Actually i expect my d/l to come down below 200GB
But then again there may be few who might not slow down.
For reasons you mentioned, the usage will be high for the first few months, but eventually, all users come down. Taking my example, first month of obtaining 2 mbps was what to download and what not. But, now that the plan is old, the excitement dies down.
Taking another example, when I was in 10th standard I got my 2 wheeler. For the next few months I used to tour the city, driving 20 km a day and causing a headache to my parents for increasing the petrol usage.
Now my petrol use after 3 years, has settled to around 6 km/day.
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
I think that logically speaking the first two or three months users may d/l a lot as like me they probably have lots of torrent in q mode. But after that expect users to slow down for diff reasons apart from the storage capacity factor.
Yes, we're expecting that - that is part of the reason we have the grace period.
I myself expect to have high d/l in the 1st month or two and after that slow down and will be uploading more than d/l. This considering the fact that i have 4 1TB hdd connected internally in Raid mode and 3 500GB and two 120GB connected externally. Only diff i expect for me is the movies size as now i d/l 720p of sizes 1.5 - 2.5 GB and 1080p 2.2 - 3.5 GB whereas if i get a hayai connection i would go for 4GB and 8-9 GB ones. Actually i expect my d/l to come down below 200GB
So I guess it depends on how you want to distribute your usage. I think if we abolish the downgrade fee, there's no reason users could subscribe to say 25mbit/s in months 1-3 and then as their usage slows down then downgrade to 10 or 5mbit/s. Our aim should be to provide whatever will work best for the user, as such, our recommendation for those who want to use more to buy a faster plan.
There's also the part about waiting. Especially in Mumbai people are quite impatient, so if you download now 1GB versions at 1mbit/s and then you change to a 5GB version when you get 5mbit/s, there's not going to be a real improvement on that... but if you change to a 5GB version when you have 25mbit/s, that's a whole different story, and ultimately what we should be aiming for.
But then again there may be few who might not slow down.
Yup, that's always a possibility, and so it is necessary for us to recommend an appropriate plan to suit their needs if they want flat-rate.
Yes, we're expecting that - that is part of the reason we have the grace period.
I myself expect to have high d/l in the 1st month or two and after that slow down and will be uploading more than d/l. This considering the fact that i have 4 1TB hdd connected internally in Raid mode and 3 500GB and two 120GB connected externally. Only diff i expect for me is the movies size as now i d/l 720p of sizes 1.5 - 2.5 GB and 1080p 2.2 - 3.5 GB whereas if i get a hayai connection i would go for 4GB and 8-9 GB ones. Actually i expect my d/l to come down below 200GB
So I guess it depends on how you want to distribute your usage. I think if we abolish the downgrade fee, there's no reason users could subscribe to say 25mbit/s in months 1-3 and then as their usage slows down then downgrade to 10 or 5mbit/s. Our aim should be to provide whatever will work best for the user, as such, our recommendation for those who want to use more to buy a faster plan.
There's also the part about waiting. Especially in Mumbai people are quite impatient, so if you download now 1GB versions at 1mbit/s and then you change to a 5GB version when you get 5mbit/s, there's not going to be a real improvement on that... but if you change to a 5GB version when you have 25mbit/s, that's a whole different story, and ultimately what we should be aiming for.
But then again there may be few who might not slow down.
Yup, that's always a possibility, and so it is necessary for us to recommend an appropriate plan to suit their needs if they want flat-rate.
umm?
Sorry, I got the error and corrected it.
---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------
Yup, that's always a possibility, and so it is necessary for us to recommend an appropriate plan to suit their needs if they want flat-rate.
Noted.
Sorry, I got the error and corrected it.
---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------
Yup, that's always a possibility, and so it is necessary for us to recommend an appropriate plan to suit their needs if they want flat-rate.
Noted.
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