CNN IBN wants to hear from you
- Thread starter Abhishek
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I think the approach is wrong here. Props to the good doctor for getting some attention to this problem..Rather than ppl contacting this guy, tHink along the lines of ASk Slashdot..people post questions, then a list gets done. You could make it more specific even on an ISP basis but the thrust would be points in common across various ISps. Groupthink that way you don't get the same complaint each time.This is defnitely going to get diluted a bit since the potential for libel can be high if specific ISPs get slandered.A summary that touches across all the issues brought up here is prolly a more viable approach. A bulletlist maybe... and ppl can vote on which are problematic...just sharing some thoughts..For the record with Airtel, a majority of my problems went away. Can it be better, sure but mainly in the price dept. So does that mean everyone should aspire to be Airtel ?How bout some common expectations that any ISP shoudl be able to meet but are not atm.
Sorry for the delayed reply fellas. I am neck deep in studies myself.
I would concur with blr_p (as usual- which makes for pretty engaging discussions on the blog) that potential for libel is high. Indeed, it cant be really radical because the whole damned thing is mainstream. I am sure they dont want to overburden the legal department.
The biggest hassle is lack of any benchmarks. For example, you wish to compare Intel and AMD- it's possible. But there are so many factors for Internet access which makes it useless to say that your website access is slow.
Someone coming from a dial up to BSNL Broadband would definitely call it fast but if u have just had an immersive gaming session in Reliance Webworld, I am sure this thingy sucks and crawls. It's about individual perception perhaps.
I still have to hear from CNN-IBN.
This venture might fail but who looses anything in trying? The mainstream media is guided by moolah and they wouldn't ever bite the hand that feeds them. Still, let's hope that their conscience is alive and they haven't whored themselves to considered interests.
The second option is legal. I was planning to sue BSNL for a class action suit in public interest. But the legal challanges are insurmountable. First, I d have to prove that something is amiss. Then, I would have surely lost out on Technical aspects. As I just mentioned above, in the absence of any benchmarks, it doesn't really gel. I had to give up the idea.
The best option is to set up information from packages.
Check out the "original" broadbandblog which has morphed in a Wiki....
http://www.broadbandwiki.com/
Any more suggestions guys?
I would concur with blr_p (as usual- which makes for pretty engaging discussions on the blog) that potential for libel is high. Indeed, it cant be really radical because the whole damned thing is mainstream. I am sure they dont want to overburden the legal department.
The biggest hassle is lack of any benchmarks. For example, you wish to compare Intel and AMD- it's possible. But there are so many factors for Internet access which makes it useless to say that your website access is slow.
Someone coming from a dial up to BSNL Broadband would definitely call it fast but if u have just had an immersive gaming session in Reliance Webworld, I am sure this thingy sucks and crawls. It's about individual perception perhaps.
I still have to hear from CNN-IBN.
This venture might fail but who looses anything in trying? The mainstream media is guided by moolah and they wouldn't ever bite the hand that feeds them. Still, let's hope that their conscience is alive and they haven't whored themselves to considered interests.
The second option is legal. I was planning to sue BSNL for a class action suit in public interest. But the legal challanges are insurmountable. First, I d have to prove that something is amiss. Then, I would have surely lost out on Technical aspects. As I just mentioned above, in the absence of any benchmarks, it doesn't really gel. I had to give up the idea.
The best option is to set up information from packages.
Check out the "original" broadbandblog which has morphed in a Wiki....
http://www.broadbandwiki.com/
Any more suggestions guys?
The gaming aspect is mostly latency related. The more conversions, PPP over ATM for example the more latency gets worse. Does BSNL use the same method ?I dont know if this can be resolved.I'd think the main factors are more speed, unlimited, reliability and of course price.
vishalrao
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yup, i agree with blr_p's thought...
instead of people emailing and dialling the guy's mobile number in a disorganised way, its better we gather up the complaints along with all the informative posts, articles, news that have been showing up all over...
organise this into one neat and tidy message (whether its a wiki, an email, a document), then send it on to the media guys, ask them to review the information and let them think about how they want to present the message on TV
there are so many posts right here on this forum, and others like vinuthomas, just need to gather them and organise it into one place...
and since we are totally apathetic and lazy, "the good doctor" and sushubh are so active here (as well as knowing where to look up this info), they should be doing the gathering and drafting the information (all the old posts, old links to outside articles/news etc), then presenting it to these media people who they're in contact with
so many topics for their awareness, such as:
*** consumer complaints about their ISPs, whether its pricing, speeds, connectivity, *** data transfer limits ***, getting ripped-off (your plan is 256k but you get speeds of actually 64k) etc.
*** then there are broader topics that should be brought up, like technologies (wifi, wimax, dsl, fiber), FTTH/FTTP, "metropolitan city-wide wireless" projects we hear about, Local-Loop Unbundling. and technicalities, such as www.nixi.org and how the stupid ISPs dont set up their routers (BGP whatever) so that if I want to send a TCPIP packet from my BSNL connection to my friend in the same city with again a BSNL connection, then why does the packet travel all the way upto singapore then turn back??? or, if I want to connect to a server in sweden, why does the "trace route" first stop at US, then back to EU?
*** economics and govt policies (TRAI/DoT/VSNL **international bandwidth pricing** ), keeping a watch on any unfair/monopolistic practises (there's an MRTP or something, isnt there?)... for example, Tata/VSNL, Bharti/Airtel, Reliance buying up all the international connectivity (undersea cables) then charging exorbitant rates to the lower-tier ISPs (your Sifys, Hathways, Iqaras, Exatts..... * BSNL * ??? they also depend on Airtel's bandwidth???)
*** one point to bring up would be: if broadband is cheap and unlimited (or "virtually" unlimited), combined with low-cost PCs (we dont all need that 2GB, 3Ghz PC with 512mb 3D video cards), think of all the school and college kids who can download all the free software out there and experiment with what they like... (lets not get into the "free" vs. "Free" debate here, lets stick to the broadband starvation topic) its not all just Linux and Programming... there's lots of free stuff from even the "evil" companies, like Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, you name it... and again it's not just software programming... there's graphics, web designing, this whole "blogging" phenomena, even just timepass as watching/listening to free tv and radio streams... there's online educational sites, like the MIT open courseware... there's WIKIPEDIA lol hehe. this country is known for it's youth demographic. just think, these kids with such access to this wealth of knowledge and ideas... the NEXT BIG THING could be coming out of india - whether its a new peice of software, a new website, or a even an individual (think Linus Torvalds, think Bill Gates, think of the 1970s where bored and jobless kids tinkered in their garages and came out with silly toys like the "Apple II"
*** comparing the cost to indian paying subscribers vs. what consumer pay in other countries (puhleese, lets not compare with the second-class places like the US, Australia and UK, lets compare ourselves to S.Korea, France, Sweden, Japan... even China is better than us *gasp* *shock* hehe
so much to discuss and debate on, but the focus should be on the basics, getting the virtual infrastructure for broadband right (speeds/prices/data-caps), there's so much focus on power, roads, water... totally forgetting about this virtual infrastructure.
then there's the matter of getting cheap consumer PCs, i thot the budget dropped levies on this area but was shocked to hear (just this morning on one of the business news tv channels) that prices of PCs and laptops will go up around 5% or so, heard some HP guy saying they will transfer the costs to the buyer :-( - although i did hear that "home built" PCs would get cheaper, so im thinking the Zeniths, HCLs etc, will enjoy.
what's the point of making broadband affordable for the common man, if they can't afford to buy a PC or laptop to hook up??? Imagine all the middle-class parents scolding their children because they think a PC is a ridiculously expensive toy (how can a 14 yr-old in the 8th standard convince his/her mom/pop to dish out Rs 15,000/- then pay Rs 250 per month every month for net access) and all they will do is play solitaire on it coz they can't tap into the vast potential out there....
a buyer (let's say me), i could just walk in to my favourite local PC "assembler", get a bargain, take it home and just plug it into the net, start downloading the latest release ISOs of my favourite free OS (lets say OpenSUSE.org hehe) , or i'm not so technical and/or want a OS my mom n pop can use without too many hassles, i would pay for Windows XP, then get back to downloading all the free stuff available for the OS, antvirus, antispyware, games, graphics, programming, website development stuff.
--------------
in one of the broadbandblog posts (where we saw those email reponses from ISP guys)... saying something like "256kbps with a 400 MB limit is more than adequate and our usage monitoring shows most people are within that" ? - the question we should shoot back is something like:
" if you think 400 MB is more than enough for most home (mom n pop) users, then WHY place ANY data transfer limits at all??? make it all unlimited for the same price, those same people will still remain under 400 MB, and the power-users will be happy with the freedom to download the data at any convenient time they want. you can still send one of those 'acceptable use' warning letters to any abusers who keep their downloads running 24x7 non-stop for all days of the month "
"people wont (or cant) even do that, they have to pay their electricity bills, worry about their systems overheating... not to mention regular power-cuts which will automatically do the data transfer limiting for you"
instead of people emailing and dialling the guy's mobile number in a disorganised way, its better we gather up the complaints along with all the informative posts, articles, news that have been showing up all over...
organise this into one neat and tidy message (whether its a wiki, an email, a document), then send it on to the media guys, ask them to review the information and let them think about how they want to present the message on TV
there are so many posts right here on this forum, and others like vinuthomas, just need to gather them and organise it into one place...
and since we are totally apathetic and lazy, "the good doctor" and sushubh are so active here (as well as knowing where to look up this info), they should be doing the gathering and drafting the information (all the old posts, old links to outside articles/news etc), then presenting it to these media people who they're in contact with
so many topics for their awareness, such as:
*** consumer complaints about their ISPs, whether its pricing, speeds, connectivity, *** data transfer limits ***, getting ripped-off (your plan is 256k but you get speeds of actually 64k) etc.
*** then there are broader topics that should be brought up, like technologies (wifi, wimax, dsl, fiber), FTTH/FTTP, "metropolitan city-wide wireless" projects we hear about, Local-Loop Unbundling. and technicalities, such as www.nixi.org and how the stupid ISPs dont set up their routers (BGP whatever) so that if I want to send a TCPIP packet from my BSNL connection to my friend in the same city with again a BSNL connection, then why does the packet travel all the way upto singapore then turn back??? or, if I want to connect to a server in sweden, why does the "trace route" first stop at US, then back to EU?
*** economics and govt policies (TRAI/DoT/VSNL **international bandwidth pricing** ), keeping a watch on any unfair/monopolistic practises (there's an MRTP or something, isnt there?)... for example, Tata/VSNL, Bharti/Airtel, Reliance buying up all the international connectivity (undersea cables) then charging exorbitant rates to the lower-tier ISPs (your Sifys, Hathways, Iqaras, Exatts..... * BSNL * ??? they also depend on Airtel's bandwidth???)
*** one point to bring up would be: if broadband is cheap and unlimited (or "virtually" unlimited), combined with low-cost PCs (we dont all need that 2GB, 3Ghz PC with 512mb 3D video cards), think of all the school and college kids who can download all the free software out there and experiment with what they like... (lets not get into the "free" vs. "Free" debate here, lets stick to the broadband starvation topic) its not all just Linux and Programming... there's lots of free stuff from even the "evil" companies, like Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, you name it... and again it's not just software programming... there's graphics, web designing, this whole "blogging" phenomena, even just timepass as watching/listening to free tv and radio streams... there's online educational sites, like the MIT open courseware... there's WIKIPEDIA lol hehe. this country is known for it's youth demographic. just think, these kids with such access to this wealth of knowledge and ideas... the NEXT BIG THING could be coming out of india - whether its a new peice of software, a new website, or a even an individual (think Linus Torvalds, think Bill Gates, think of the 1970s where bored and jobless kids tinkered in their garages and came out with silly toys like the "Apple II"
*** comparing the cost to indian paying subscribers vs. what consumer pay in other countries (puhleese, lets not compare with the second-class places like the US, Australia and UK
, lets compare ourselves to S.Korea, France, Sweden, Japan... even China is better than us *gasp* *shock* heheso much to discuss and debate on, but the focus should be on the basics, getting the virtual infrastructure for broadband right (speeds/prices/data-caps), there's so much focus on power, roads, water... totally forgetting about this virtual infrastructure.
then there's the matter of getting cheap consumer PCs, i thot the budget dropped levies on this area but was shocked to hear (just this morning on one of the business news tv channels) that prices of PCs and laptops will go up around 5% or so, heard some HP guy saying they will transfer the costs to the buyer :-( - although i did hear that "home built" PCs would get cheaper, so im thinking the Zeniths, HCLs etc, will enjoy.
what's the point of making broadband affordable for the common man, if they can't afford to buy a PC or laptop to hook up??? Imagine all the middle-class parents scolding their children because they think a PC is a ridiculously expensive toy (how can a 14 yr-old in the 8th standard convince his/her mom/pop to dish out Rs 15,000/- then pay Rs 250 per month every month for net access) and all they will do is play solitaire on it coz they can't tap into the vast potential out there....
a buyer (let's say me), i could just walk in to my favourite local PC "assembler", get a bargain, take it home and just plug it into the net, start downloading the latest release ISOs of my favourite free OS (lets say OpenSUSE.org hehe) , or i'm not so technical and/or want a OS my mom n pop can use without too many hassles, i would pay for Windows XP, then get back to downloading all the free stuff available for the OS, antvirus, antispyware, games, graphics, programming, website development stuff.
--------------
in one of the broadbandblog posts (where we saw those email reponses from ISP guys)... saying something like "256kbps with a 400 MB limit is more than adequate and our usage monitoring shows most people are within that" ? - the question we should shoot back is something like:
" if you think 400 MB is more than enough for most home (mom n pop) users, then WHY place ANY data transfer limits at all??? make it all unlimited for the same price, those same people will still remain under 400 MB, and the power-users will be happy with the freedom to download the data at any convenient time they want. you can still send one of those 'acceptable use' warning letters to any abusers who keep their downloads running 24x7 non-stop for all days of the month "
"people wont (or cant) even do that, they have to pay their electricity bills, worry about their systems overheating... not to mention regular power-cuts which will automatically do the data transfer limiting for you
"Vishal, when I had invited guest posts for BB, why didnt you reply!!You hit the nail on the head. I have been looking for more information on how the ISP's route their traffic but then it's a secondary thing atm. I would love to set up another place where the information is accessible to media but I really doubt, as of now, as to how this would work out. If I have unlimited BSNL Broadband at this time, would I really be worried about looming digital divide? Or for that matter have a leased line connectvity (which incidentally is one of the most expensive set up in the world), why would I even think about DSL users? Here in lies the rub. I am partly motivated by lack of access and feeling of frustration at the lack of accountability in this frigging system. Otherwise, I wouldn't campaign for lowering the PC prices because I already have one. Similarly, for any "correspondent" to speak on access, he/she has to face what we have to. For the same argument, you as consumers would never step in a public hospital because we can afford expensive private treatment. But this leaves out a vast huge majority for whom a public hospital becomes the only place where either they can live or die. Seriously. Just my thoughts. We ought to move aroud things because I cannot do anything alone. I raise the issue, generate public interest and try to take further initiatives. Sushubh has given us a platform here for the same reason. Why not email those topics, which in your opinion make more sense to be highlighted? This would be more plausible. Other thing is that you can highlight this across your blogs. I am trying to do the same on BB; I think I can set this up on DesiCritics where we have another huge readership. Slowly, even if the media doesn't take notice, we can transform in some kind of a movement which would make mention in the mainstream press. One/two or even 10 of us can be wrong. If there are hundreds, thousands speaking the same thing, THEY cant be wrong. This is the whole purpose.
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