Unlimited broadband plans: what is the future?

[mgcarley]

So how much can we download on the 5 Mbit plan at most? 100GB seems like a fair usage policy that is not being stated. How much can we go max? Download and upload separately. And what will you do if and when we do reach that limit?

It would merely be a general guideline to show people what plan they should be using based on their downloads in a month.

Obviously if you want to download 1TB per month, although it is possible to do that on a 5mbit/s plan, we wouldn't recommend it: firstly because you'd be maxing out your line about 16 hours a day, secondly because, all things considered, that kind of usage blatently *isn't* fair use: and we can justify that because even in most European countries and the USA you wouldn't be allowed to download that much without some kind of FUP being applied.

Besides, we have the Hayai-zone thing going on, so if you want to download 1TB of data through that, then we welcome you to go for it.

@hplp20 - I think Mathew has answered that a number of times. He is not keen on a fixed FUP limit and would not really bother as long as the usage averages out over his user base. However, the screws would have to be tightened if/when there is widespread abuse. We must agree that is a fair policy.
@Abhishek, Mathew - I sincerely feel cloud computing concepts are a little too early for the home consumer in India. I think it is tightly coupled with our respect for intellectual property laws.

Actually I think it would be something to tackle on a per-customer basis. If statistics are to be believed, it will be a relatively small selection of customers that are "abusing" the resources month after month, and if that turns out to be the case, then I think we'd be within our rights to request those customers to upgrade to the next tier or change to a data plan - or find another service. But I believe that would be quite an extreme case.

I am more in "favor" of a speed reduction kind of a thing. Something like say on a 5 Mbps plan, after about 50-60 GB limit, the "speed" reduces to about 3 MBps and thereon. I think this has been addressed but to me it represents a fair value and I agree with Mathew's contention.

I've said it often enough: it's the GB, not the speed. If we were to reduce the speed, why wouldn't we go straight to 256k or 512k? 3mbit/s probably isn't going to curb usage enough to warrant such a policy being implemented, and I like even less the idea of sub-megabit speeds.

I cannot answer for the twerps who might be willing to "sublet" the bandwidth or use it for "nefarious" purposes but I guess it is too early to draw conclusions. For me an 'unlimited plan" basically gives me a peace of mind that I am not going "overboard".

I agree, but for some reason I just can't find a way to make an FUP work that is good both for us and for customers.

I hate to keep a constant check on every byte that goes in and out. As an average user, I use the available plans to surf, to try and watch some You Tube, download some torrents, update my system and my folks depend heavily on Skype for their Voip needs. That sums up the whole usage pattern which was there on my prior Airtel 1Mbps (unlimited) also.


Perhaps, but when we're talking an average of Rs20 or less for 1GB of data having to count every byte going in and out isn't as necessary as it is with existing providers, where 1GB might cost Rs200, 400, 500 or even 800 per GB.

Skype voice uses about 64k, maybe less - at that rate, it would take nearly 2.5 days to eat up 1GB of data, and you'd have to spend 12-full hours on Youtube SD (assuming 320kbit/s) to eat up 1GB of data, so we think that for normal usage, anything between 10 and 30GB should serve such users nicely (ergo, our lite product tiers should suit a large portion of users).

It's the torrents, the rapidsharing and everything else that will kill you (well, your wallet, anyway) - but even then, a DVD9 rip shouldn't cost you much more (if at all) than a pirate version of the DVD

 

[shouvik]

I started using internet in 1997. First connection was a VSNL dial-up costing Rs. 3400 for 100 hours plus cost of phone calls. Each phone call used to cost Rs. 1.2 for 3 minutes. So call cost was Rs/ 24 per hour and Rs. 34/hour paid to VSNL for a 33 kbps connection. If I look closely, then my hourly cost has remained the same over the last 12-13 years. Although I am now using 2 mbps connection.

I own a small software development, web design and management company here in Delhi. Recently I was approached by a foreign customer for a job that involved downloading about 10 GB data every day and uploading the same amount of data to the servers of the customer in the USA. I reckoned I needed a good 10 mbps connection with same download and upload speed to do the job. A backup connection was also neeed. So asked for quotations from various providers.

Lowest quote was from a provider named Tulip for Rs. 60000 + service tax per month for a wireless connection where they told me that a receiver will be put on my rooftop and it will get signals from one of their tower that is about 1 KM away from my office building. The sales guy was not even aware of the name of the technology being used by their company but I guess it is the same crappy wimax technology that is used by Reliance broadnet.

So, I sent a quote to the customer with breakup of my major input costs like broadband and data storage rack that I had to buy here. He was stunned to see what I had factored as broadband connection cost. He told me that he was payng $140 for 50 mbps down 20 mbps up unlimited FIOS connection from Verizon. Needless to say, I was asking for too much money and I was aware of that and hence never got the contract.

Moral of the story. Indian IT businesses, both small and large are paying too much money for the basic infrastructure which includes good broadband connections and hence are losers in international business arena.

So what is the reason for this mess? It is our uneducated politicians like A. Raja, our telecom minister who has done nothing in last 2-3 years except giving out 2G cellphone licenses without auction. Then we have babus in sarkari offices who have gotten their jobs due to our rotten quota system that rewards the less capable people. This government of ours has not been able to auction 3g licenses despite declaring several time-tables over that last 2 years.

Right now when Obama is including Nobel Prize winners in his cabinet, We have a convicted murderer Shibu Soren in our government. I'm not even starting to talk about Amar Singh yet. Obama talked about spending money on broadband in his inauguration speech. What can we expect a Lalu Prasad or a Shibu Soren to talk about in cabinet meetings?

So, can we expect scene to change in next few years. I bet no.

Coming back to the topic at hand... what is the future? Don't expect 10 mbps unlimited connections to be available in India for at least next 20 years. We can hope for a 2 mbps unlimited connection in next 10 years or so. :wall:

Sorry for the long post but I am just sick of the state of affairs in our country.


I loved your post because I can now see the future of broadband connection in India.

My question is that, why do the private companies (Airtel, Reliance) have to depend on our sarkar to provide us good service?

 

[Abhishek]

I've said it often enough: it's the GB, not the speed. If we were to reduce the speed, why wouldn't we go straight to 256k or 512k? 3mbit/s probably isn't going to curb usage enough to warrant such a policy being implemented, and I like even less the idea of sub-megabit speeds.

I'd even agree here. However, let me give you a simple example. My folks are computer illiterate; they are used to see Windows booting up the same way they left it the last time. At the same time, they barely use it for the voice calls because everyone uses cellular phone calls. As such, they know what the bill is expected to be every month, regardless of the usage.

This is what my Airtel offered me; I barely used it for the voice calls but it was a great option for broadband access.

I think we all agree to the notion of pay per use (metered GB's), it becomes very difficult to stave off the customer expectations. My contention is that all the while we pay say around 1500 per month (for about 5 Mbps/30-40 GB lite plans from Hayai)- am making a broad assumption; it would be next to impossible for MOST of the lay users who are going to sign up to monitor their connections. Any spike of bills beyond their "usual routine" and you'd find a lot of people after your blood (or whosoever represents your company).

The bottom line is Price. I am speaking from the perspective of a customer here. Unfortunately, people attach more importance to the value they perceive with the product. Most of the "guys" would be happy to flaunt a 7k shoe from say Reebok but they would never flaunt say something like broadband access. I have not heard of anyone saying anything about Airtel Broadband or crying himself hoarse about "Hey I've got 8 Mbps"! But Indians look around when someone says "Hey I've got a BMW"

Hope you get the drift. It sucks but then this is where you are trying to sell a product that has no "aspirational value" though people may be willing to subscribe to Hayai because it comes bundled with so and so and it allows you to do so and so at a 'cheap' price.

Interestingly, Reebok's cheapest shoes are around for 1k because they wanted to break that "price barrier" mentality. People associate the brand with exclusivity and the company is selling dirt cheap chinese made crap which does contribute to it's bottomline.

 

[Sushubh]

the reebok shoe i liked was priced at around 9K. bought a cheaper edition worth 2500 bucks. and even that feels like a 500 rupee shoe.

 

[mgcarley]

I'd even agree here. However, let me give you a simple example. My folks are computer illiterate; they are used to see Windows booting up the same way they left it the last time. At the same time, they barely use it for the voice calls because everyone uses cellular phone calls. As such, they know what the bill is expected to be every month, regardless of the usage.

Yet, they don't have the same expectation of their power or phone bill.

Data capacity, like megawatts of electricity and switched lines or digital channels for phone calls, is limited. In fact, it could be thought of (almost literally) in the exact same way you think of roads. They go where you need them, but as you get closer to the destination (some obscure website), then the roads get thinner... unless the destination is heavily trafficed, then it has a bigger road.

Power and phone companies get around this usage issue by having metered access to these resources, yet ISPs "can't" without everyone bitching.

As such you get the same problem you have on the roads - traffic piles up and slows to a crawl. And then everyone bitches about that. If you had to pay per kilometer of usage as you do on some roads in Europe, the roads would be significantly more free of traffic.

This is what my Airtel offered me; I barely used it for the voice calls but it was a great option for broadband access.

I think we all agree to the notion of pay per use (metered GB's), it becomes very difficult to stave off the customer expectations. My contention is that all the while we pay say around 1500 per month (for about 5 Mbps/30-40 GB lite plans from Hayai)- am making a broad assumption; it would be next to impossible for MOST of the lay users who are going to sign up to monitor their connections. Any spike of bills beyond their "usual routine" and you'd find a lot of people after your blood (or whosoever represents your company).


Yes and no.

Firstly, you should know the lite plans are quite a bit cheaper than the normal plans. If your parents are happy with around Rs500 per month then we'd be able to put them on a lite plan with ~20GB of usage - and I doubt they would even come close to utilizing it, and as such, Rs500 per month is all they are ever going to pay.

You can look at it the same way you look at your electricity bill. If we imagine that using an A/C is like downloading a bunch of movies, then obviously, the bill will be a lot less for those that don't have or use the A/C - but when you install and use an A/C your bill will reflect that usage.

Anyone who installs an A/C and doesn't expect the bill to rise somewhat is.... dare I say it... dreaming?

At the end of the day, however, if your parents did happen to use more than 22GB one month (out of a 20GB quota) - Rs40 (or less) is going to be MUCH less painful to deal with than Rs400 or Rs1,600 (as it could be at an ISP that charges 80 paise per MB).

What I'm trying to point out then is, if the "over-use" charge is actually reasonable, it is much less of a problem: it's fair to us (we get paid according to usage) and it's fair to the consumer (they don't get robbed blind).

And since the usage on data-plans is prepaid, it's up to the consumer to decide how quickly he uses it. He can buy 150GB, download 100GB in one month and 10GB for the next 5 months and it doesn't matter.

The bottom line is Price. I am speaking from the perspective of a customer here. Unfortunately, people attach more importance to the value they perceive with the product. Most of the "guys" would be happy to flaunt a 7k shoe from say Reebok but they would never flaunt say something like broadband access. I have not heard of anyone saying anything about Airtel Broadband or crying himself hoarse about "Hey I've got 8 Mbps"! But Indians look around when someone says "Hey I've got a BMW"


Bah. I had a BMW once. Never again.

Hope you get the drift. It sucks but then this is where you are trying to sell a product that has no "aspirational value" though people may be willing to subscribe to Hayai because it comes bundled with so and so and it allows you to do so and so at a 'cheap' price.


That all depends. 8mbit/s is nothing to write home about if you've been abroad. Not everyone has had the pleasure of 50 or 100mbit/s.

 

[Jonas]

I don't believe in the concept of unlimited broadband plans. I prefer to get standard quality services than so-called unlimited plans which delivers you an awful experience for free [like the Customer support you get with MTNL]. I just know, Rs700- 20Gb bandwidth with 1mbps data transfer and when the user consumes the b/w reduction in speed to 256kbps, fits my need.

 

[hplp20]

What happens if we cross whatever limit you have in mind?

 

[mgcarley]

I don't believe in the concept of unlimited broadband plans. I prefer to get standard quality services than so-called unlimited plans which delivers you an awful experience for free [like the Customer support you get with MTNL].
I just know, Rs700- 20Gb bandwidth with 1mbps data transfer and when the user consumes the b/w reduction in speed to 256kbps, fits my need.

On our lite plans we would give I think 30GB for this price but no reduction in speed to 256kbit/s. Reducing speed is a stupid idea and annoying - and technically speaking, would force us to raise the plan prices to compensate for an extra few GBs to be consumed at 256k.

What happens if we cross whatever limit you have in mind?

...Nothing. Unless you go WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over and it affects other users, then we might call you up or SMS you and ask you to curb your usage... of course, if it happens like 3 months in a row we might ask you to upgrade your plan... and failing that then we might have to take remedial measures.

 

[Daddycool]

Mathew for the record, in your post 102 the last two quotes are Abhishek's but you attribute those quotes to me.Abhishek you misunderstand my statement re: cloud computing. I believe one of the main impetuses for cloud computing is savings in software license cost. How many Indian households are actually attuned to the concept of paying for license today? That is what I meant.Secondly, we have traditionally been a low labour cost country and therefore have always been reluctant to pay for anything like services as opposed to a physical product. This is going to be another obstacle to cloud making headway for the home consumer here.Regarding your suggestion of reducing a 5 mbps connection to 3 mbps speed when crossing the FU threshold, that would be no deterrent at all IMHO. The leecher would continue to transact his nefarious business unhindered.

 

[Jonas]

On our lite plans we would give I think 30GB for this price but no reduction in speed to 256kbit/s. Reducing speed is a stupid idea and annoying - and technically speaking, would force us to raise the plan prices to compensate for an extra few GBs to be consumed at 256k.

Actually, I was considering companies benefit. Otherwise what I had in mind was 30 GB for that price. But, the issue is when we become addicted to great speeds we eat bandwidth like anything. So, reducing the speed calms the insanity that the user develops. And to be really honest? People like me who are not into piracy and illegal downloads, will be fine with that Fair Usage Policy. Only companies like MTNL/BSNL can offer unlimited stuff as they have government to bail them out , I was expecting Airtel to change the situations but, its acting really sick -_-

Whatever you are saying sounds good.

Airtel failed on us, we don't have any assurance that you won't.