A discussion on poor internet speeds and awful broadband plans in India

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_Chairman_Saab_ said:
So, have you guys come to a conclusion yet ? EDIT: Mgcarley, what do you eat man ?
An unusual question, but to answer that: Everything... depending on who I want to offend on that particular day.
OneWithTheForce said:
I didn't say you were. Just merely pointing out the fact that even when faced with a threat to national security and a mounting death toll,the Indian government had trouble tapping into the phones of the terrorists. Imagining the same people spying on my email and every other piece of data I consume on the internet,just cracks me up :)
Yes and no. There are a lot of reasons they would not necessarily have been able to tap in to the phones including but not limited to the fact that the SIM cards were not registered in the names of the terrorists and so forth (they were just registered to normal Indian people as I recall - but considering the ease of obtaining a SIM under someone elses name by slipping a few extra rupees to someone, I'm of the opinion that all the stuff you have to go through to get a connection, even prepaid, is BS).Actually being able to tap the phones, however, is more trivial. And to be honest, tapping in to phones would actually be easier with VOIP - they're making it harder for themselves by not relaxing the rules on VOIP but hey, who am I to tell them what to do? :tongue:The monitoring that is done for the Internet is - for the most part - automated... it's a keyword thing. However, if you become a subject of interest, then yeah, even an incompetent government employee could waltz in and see most of what's going on if they really want to.
OneWithTheForce said:
And about the servers located in India,I know very little about it. But I thought that most local servers don't actually host any content. For example with youtube,the actual cache/video is only available on their North American and European servers.
The purpose of a content distribution network is pretty much what it says on the tin - to distribute content. You don't honestly think there's only one copy of a video, do you? If I watch a video here in the US, I'm going to see it stream from a server in (in my case, based on my current location) Chicago. If I was on the east coast, it would probably be NYC/NJ, or one of the Carolinas. If I was on the West Coast, probably California somewhere. If I was a bit further west but not on the coast, probably Utah or Texas.But then when I send you the URL and you watch it in India, you're going to see it stream probably from Delhi or Mumbai or whereever according to your ISP's routing (assuming they're peered with Google or with someone who is peered with Google). It *MAY* (depending on the popularity of the video in question) be simply relayed from a server elsewhere in the world because if it's an unpopular video, it won't have as many copies distributed globally.
OneWithTheForce said:
I guess the lack of any good infrastructure is a big problem here. Proper planning is something we lack on the whole,and that's not just with broadband.
Yes and no. The infrastructure can (sort of) handle higher speeds. In reality, a lot of the problem is that the decisions is stuck in the mentality of the grandpas that run the ISPs. Or the backbone. Peering. International connectivity. And so on.Anecdote: When I go to telco conferences in India, I'm usually the youngest person in a C-level role by about 30 years. When I go to the same sorts of conferences elsewhere (whether Asia, Europe, US or even the Middle East), there are frequently people at my level to within 10 years, some even in my age group.
 
mgcarley said:
But then when I send you the URL and you watch it in India, you're going to see it stream probably from Delhi or Mumbai or whereever according to your ISP's routing (assuming they're peered with Google or with someone who is peered with Google). It *MAY* (depending on the popularity of the video in question) be simply relayed from a server elsewhere in the world because if it's an unpopular video, it won't have as many copies distributed globally.
This is really stupid. Why don't they send it directly to Indian Google servers and stream it from there to user on the spot? (I am not talking about copies that are stored here first). For example:- A unpopular youtube video is stored in the USA in google servers. Instead of user have stream it from there,video should've to pass through Indian google servers and streamed from there to user end.Just a sort of bridge for better performance and low latency. Do they really need to store it? I think it will double the bandwidth but you get optimal bandwidth plus low latency.
 
_Chairman_Saab_ said:
This is really stupid. Why don't they send it directly to Indian Google servers and stream it from there to user on the spot? (I am not talking about copies that are stored here first).
They do. If the video is popular enough for it to warrant caching, it'll be cached, no matter it's origin - that's up to the algorithm to decide. If not, then the Google server nearest you (*as decided by your ISP) grabs the video first and then forwards it to you. Transparently, without you knowing anything.
_Chairman_Saab_ said:
For example:- A unpopular youtube video is stored in the USA in google servers. Instead of user have stream it from there,video should've to pass through Indian google servers and streamed from there to user end.Just a sort of bridge for better performance and low latency.
LATENCY is less of a problem than actual bandwidth/capacity. I can stream a video if there is 300 or 400ms of latency, but I can't if there are 1,000 1mbit/s streams and I'm number 1,001.
_Chairman_Saab_ said:
Do they really need to store it? I think it will double the bandwidth but you get optimal bandwidth plus low latency.
They don't *NEED* to, but it generally works better if they do. For an unpopular video, it does - it's a store & forward mechanism but for a popular video, that wouldn't work, because then you'd have the video streaming every single time from the US to India which would have the potential to choke the pipes completely, rendering the CDN completely pointless and it would even cause a site like Youtube to become completely infeasible to operate.Having it stored locally (as well as in several points around the world) allows the content to propegate in a fashion according to how it is consumed. Besides, 1TB of hard disk space costs what... $70. The equivalent amount in bandwidth costs about the same, but you can only use that 1TB worth of file transfer once before it starts eating in to your costs - significantly. If you transfer only 1TB worth of information in a month, it's OK. But when you're the size of Youtube and you're transferring 1,000TB in a month you're saving money on 999TB worth of data transfer, or the better part of $69900 a month in this example. Just for the price of one hard drive. (I'm using super easy, very conservative numbers for the purpose of the argument)I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend that $70,000 a month on more servers for storage around the globe than on pushing files over choked pipes and having users in around the world abandon my service because it doesn't work properly where they are.For those of you who have tried those sites that stream movies that aren't on CDNs - the ones where the servers are located somewhere obscure like the middle of Siberia* (*true story) - and wondered why it stutters and stops all the time, you'll quickly come to the same conclusion that the way Youtube and sites like it do things is the better way.
 
mgcarley said:
Yes and no. The infrastructure can (sort of) handle higher speeds. In reality, a lot of the problem is that the decisions is stuck in the mentality of the grandpas that run the ISPs. Or the backbone. Peering. International connectivity. And so on.Anecdote: When I go to telco conferences in India, I'm usually the youngest person in a C-level role by about 30 years. When I go to the same sorts of conferences elsewhere (whether Asia, Europe, US or even the Middle East), there are frequently people at my level to within 10 years, some even in my age group.
I think that's exactly what the problem is for most things in India. There's a lack of any young people with vision. The situation just gets murkier and more ugly the longer you look at it.
 
ishaan said:
talks too much and says nothing :nono:
How about participating in the conversation instead of making snarky comments that add no value? :)
 


Saurab k said:
we are not making kitty party here . Talk about the subject of this debate
I have been. That comment was directed at the user known as "ishaan".As for you, do you have anything to add? I was waiting for you to cite some sources from one of your previous comments where you were telling me I'm wrong about something...
 

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