Need Info about ISP? Plz reply

  • Thread starter Thread starter airtel_nike
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 40
  • Views Views 6,729
the ISP pays you Rs100 per month for each customer that you supply on their behalf
It is usually on percentage basis usually around 30~50% of what you collect from the customer. When you have more users on your network, you can negotiate for better %.

1 or more registered companies (depends on who sets it up - it cost me around Rs1,50,000 but then my lawyers seem to be damned expensive)
Your lawyers ripped you off your money very bad.

Bulk supply of network cable & ends (Maybe Rs20 a metre + Rs10 per end)
I remember getting 4F SM OFC around INR 12 / meter 4 years ago. And Quantum / QHMPL CAT5e 4 pair were around INR 2250 - 2400 per box and 2 Pair (avoid this) around INR 1300 per box. I think that's 305 Meters in a box if I remember correctly.

Network equipment - you'll also probably want to put 1 cheap switch (maybe $30-150 depending on how many ports it has) in each apartment block that you supply to ensure you don't run in to the maximum cable lengths (100m) of normal network cables. Alternatively you could do a hybrid fiber/copper network using "ethernet extenders" (about $80-100 each) which generally work up to around 500m over fibre and then convert the signal at either end back to copper and in to one of the little switches you would have, in which case you'll also want a fiber switch at your office too or instead... unfortunately these aren't as cheap (starting around $500 from memory).
@OP: Decent Ethernet switches are available around INR 750 each. If you want even cheaper, you could go for hubs (try to avoid if possible). New 8 port ones around Rs 375 - 400 and used ones are from INR 150 - 200. Used MX Media Converters can be purchased for INR 2250.

Network tools (crimping tool, tone generator etc)
@OP: MX Crimper can be purchased for INR 300. May be a Cutter (INR 25 each) / quick cable stripper as in the video below would also help.

An excellent tutorial on crimping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQGdpdT4SpE

Agreements with housing societies for cabling and power supplies for whatever equipment you might put in, whether wired, wireless or both
@OP: Local residents / shopkeepers are usually happy even if you pay INR 50 a month in return for power supply. But be prepared for support calls if you have active equipment without backup on the route during power outages.

If your budget permits and if you want a zero / low maintenance network and happy customers, build a FTTB/C GPON with buried OFC like what @mgcarley is planning / building and you can later upgrade to FTTH which is the future.
 
It is usually on percentage basis usually around 30~50% of what you collect from the customer. When you have more users on your network, you can negotiate for better %.

The numbers I was giving were purely hypothetical... But now you know why you usually get so little for so much ;)

Your lawyers ripped you off your money very bad.

I know. Not much I can do about it now, except that I have switched lawyers. Live & Learn.

I remember getting 4F SM OFC around INR 12 / meter 4 years ago. And Quantum / QHMPL CAT5e 4 pair were around INR 2250 - 2400 per box and 2 Pair (avoid this) around INR 1300 per box. I think that's 305 Meters in a box if I remember correctly.


Sheesh. Wish I could get UTP cable that cheap in NZ. Your eyes would bug out at the prices we have to pay here - Rs3500+ for a small box containing only 125m - closer to Rs6000 for a normal 300m :D

Fiber, that's a different story, though, we're probably buying a lot more of that - the cable itself is very cheap, the ends... not so much. In India we're paying a bit more than Rs12/metre but that's for the high strand count. The cables users will see are mostly pre-terminated and work out to roughly that much I guess, depending on the length.

@OP: Decent Ethernet switches are available around INR 750 each. If you want even cheaper, you could go for hubs (try to avoid if possible). New 8 port ones around Rs 375 - 400 and used ones are from INR 150 - 200. Used MX Media Converters can be purchased for INR 2250.


Don't even bother with Hubs. You'll have the network come to a crawl nightly.

Local residents / shopkeepers are usually happy even if you pay INR 50 a month in return for power supply. But be prepared for support calls if you have active equipment without backup on the route during power outages.

If your budget permits and if you want a zero / low maintenance network and happy customers, build a FTTB/C GPON with buried OFC like what @mgcarley is planning / building and you can later upgrade to FTTH which is the future.

That's basically what I was suggesting (Hybrid Fibre/Copper) as this would extend his reach without having as much equipment in the field, but burying cables requires way too much red-tape and costs way more to do, so unless he's prepared to pony up some serious cash... and if you're going to spend the money on burying the fibre you wouldn't want to get cheap equipment, since the price differential for better equipment is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of digging... we're talking like Rs100-150 per customer one-time cost to have far superior equipment.

Also, the problem with GPON is that equipment isn't exactly cheap - you can get some cheaper Chinese stuff that'll support 512 users for maybe US$8,500 or so all up (plus splitters & cpes which from the same company cost $80 in bulk for cpes and from $55 to $195 depending on how many splits are in the passive splitters) and the main problem it would solve would be the aforementioned issues with the power (since the splitters are passive, it's the user's responsibility to provide power to his CPE).

Using some form of Ethernet might be easier to deploy overall, and cheaper in the short-run. Here we have that typical tech conundrum of cheap, fast or good: pick two. Cheap & fast (slinging UTP cables over fences & trees, using cheap switches etc) is not going to be good. Fast & good is not going to be cheap. Cheap & good is not going to be fast.
 
What is the cost for company registration and what kind of document required for getting IP-1 license and if i apply for these all activities how much time spend ?
 
Fiber, that's a different story, though, we're probably buying a lot more of that - the cable itself is very cheap, the ends... not so much. In India we're paying a bit more than Rs12/metre but that's for the high strand count. The cables users will see are mostly pre-terminated and work out to roughly that much I guess, depending on the length.
Are you giving the current rates of Corning and imported likes or the ones normally available here? What is the approximate pricing for current 24, 36, 48 strand armored and ready for conduit SM (non gel) ones like as they dropped quite a bit in last couple of years. Is it economical for you to go for pre-terminated ones or are you just trying to speed up installation times? Any other benefits? I read even Verizon and some other provider in Japan or somewhere follow the same.

the cost of digging...
Are you considering Mini / Micro Trenching and blowing fiber instead of digging and laying? The newer process looks very clean. Any idea on these costs per Mtr / Km here in India as manpower is lot cheaper here than in other countries?

Also, the problem with GPON is that equipment isn't exactly cheap - you can get some cheaper Chinese stuff that'll support 512 users for maybe US$8,500 or so all up (plus splitters & cpes which from the same company cost $80 in bulk for cpes and from $55 to $195 depending on how many splits are in the passive splitters) and the main problem it would solve would be the aforementioned issues with the power
Can you share the info you know on pricing of the ones like PMC-Sierra OLT PAS5211 or Alphion's AOLT-4000 or the ones from A&L etc; Is it triple play stuff that come for $55 each. Quite surprising but good to know :) What is the average $ on a x32 split model? Also any idea on the costs of OFS Orbital Fiber Distribution Cabinet (166 or 288 users) and likes for MDUs?

What about the additional costs of EMS like GPON Doctor or are the ones that come with the OEM good enough? What will you be using at Hayai for this purpose? Third party / In house dev / OEM supplied?

What is the cost for company registration and what kind of document required for getting IP-1 license and if i apply for these all activities how much time spend ?

You can check the process at http://business.gov.in/starting_business/registration_business.php and usually CA / CS look around 15K-25K as their professional fee apart from stamp duty / legal fee. Process takes about a month or 45 days usually. You can check guidelines for IP-1 at Department of Telecommunications - Govt. of India
 
Are you giving the current rates of Corning and imported likes or the ones normally available here? What is the approximate pricing for current 24, 36, 48 strand armored and ready for conduit SM (non gel) ones like as they dropped quite a bit in last couple of years.

Varies quite a lot. C-class optics you're looking at up to a few dollars a metre, but B-class optics can be had for as low as maybe $1,000 per KM or even less.

Is it economical for you to go for pre-terminated ones or are you just trying to speed up installation times? Any other benefits? I read even Verizon and some other provider in Japan or somewhere follow the same.

It's easier to do pre-terminated in some circumstances where "standard" cable lengths are required (that is, 50m or less). By the time you take in to account the cost of an hour's work to polish & terminate the ends properly, it works out pretty similar in cost anyway, but then a single tech can do more installations per day so the cost efficiency is better.

Are you considering Mini / Micro Trenching and blowing fiber instead of digging and laying? The newer process looks very clean. Any idea on these costs per Mtr / Km here in India as manpower is lot cheaper here than in other countries?


Yes. Micro/Mini trenching can be very cool where it's allowed, but we're trying to use existing conduits where possible.

Costs vary by city/neighbourhood, and all in all, labour costs are the least of our worries in that respect. Mumbai can be hideously expensive - I've been quoted anything up to Rs10k/meter. Pune is something like Rs4500/meter but not sure why, since the electricity companies were charged only Rs1500/meter for more or less the same thing.

Can you share the info you know on pricing of the ones like PMC-Sierra OLT PAS5211 or Alphion's AOLT-4000 or the ones from A&L etc;

Don't have latest pricing handy for these manufacturers.

Is it triple play stuff that come for $55 each.


That's for a 1:2 passive splitter, not a CPE... so hell no :D

CPEs are $80 for a 1x FE port device (no VOIP, no IPTV) from a run-of-the-mill brand. I've heard of cheaper one but... yeah... nah. Our Alcatel ones cost over $120 but they're full triple play with 4x GE ports + 2 FXS ports. I just have to make sure they'll give me them in black otherwise I can only imagine the horrible colour they'll be after 12 months if they're giving us white ones!

Quite surprising but good to know :) What is the average $ on a x32 split model? Also any idea on the costs of OFS Orbital Fiber Distribution Cabinet (166 or 288 users) and likes for MDUs?

1x32 splitter is $195 from AD-Net in large quantities.

FDH depends where you get them from - ADC has pretty reasonable pricing from memory, works out to maybe couple dollars per subscriber.
 
[*]If you decide to go wireless, you'll need WiFi equipment with the ability to authenticate each user against a RADIUS server - a Ubiquiti Rocket M2 with omni-directional antenna at each society would be a decent enough option, then you only have to connect 1 device per society to your network and being 2.4GHz requires no CPE for the users & for users who have a poor signal, antennas are pretty cheap, plus the firmware is customizable and you can also implement rate-limiting per client as well as client separation (as in, two people connecting to the same AP can't see each other)
HTH.
If i go for wireless and for providing internet i use AP/omni directional antenna so how much area is covered by this antenna and this range is visible to all wifi equipment like mobile, routers Can you plz explain the infrastructure of wireless internet providing
one of my provider use Omni directional antenna for providing internet service and on customer side he use one switch and CPE and above you says no CPE is used and This Wirless range is not visible in my mobile, IPOD etc.How he hide the range.
 


If i go for wireless and for providing internet i use AP/omni directional antenna so how much area is covered by this antenna and this range is visible to all wifi equipment like mobile, routers Can you plz explain the infrastructure of wireless internet providing

Wireless is a finicky thing and no particular range can be guaranteed. Most types of 802.11 (WiFi) on either 2.4 or 5GHz frequency are supposed to have a range of about 100m outdoors, but with the right equipment it can be pushed up to 50-odd kilometers. 802.16 (WiMax) is supposed to have a range of about 30 miles across a clear-plane but typically in an urban area it's more likely to be 3 miles.

one of my provider use Omni directional antenna for providing internet service and on customer side he use one switch and CPE and above you says no CPE is used and This Wirless range is not visible in my mobile, IPOD etc.How he hide the range.

There are several types of wireless. He could be using WiMax, in case you'd have either a WiMax CPE or a WiMax USB dongle (this is not the same type of wireless as I was talking about and almost no phones or computers have WiMax built in). Otherwise, he could be using WiFi on the 5GHz frequency, and no phones or computers have radios that receive WiFi on this frequency.

Normal WiFi on the 2.4GHz frequency doesn't necessarily need a CPE and could be seen by your phone or ipod or laptop without difficulty, although for the sake of a strong signal I'd put one in anyway, especially if there is not line-of-sight to the access point.


With all due respect, I think you need to do a whole lot more reading and decide the what/where/how for your service: what you want to provide, where you want to provide it and how (starting with what medium). Do you know what your potential customers want? Without a plan and unless you have some people working with you who know what they're doing on the technical side, in which case they can surely answer these types of questions which are, shall we say, technical basics - I'm not sure that you're ready to start an ISP.

To be fair, I've had my share of help from all over the place, but giving such generalized information without knowing what you want to achieve (except that you want to go in to the ISP or more specifically, cablewala business) makes it a little difficult to be as helpful as I'd like.

Like any business, got this you'll need to need to plan, plan and plan some more. And then make plans B, C, D through Z. And then keep on planning because things will change. And being that it's an ISP, double or triple plan. And get friendly with Excel or OpenOffice/LibreOffice Calc - it will rule your life. And get yourself some business plan templates (for summary plans) and business planning software (for full plans) and financial forecasting templates. And get plenty of legal advice and documentation.
 
i know i am not redy to start ISP but now i am learning networking after completing my course i like to start ISP so that i am collecting information.Can you plz suggest wireless equipment to start WISP
 
i know i am not redy to start ISP but now i am learning networking after completing my course i like to start ISP so that i am collecting information.
Can you plz suggest wireless equipment to start WISP

I already listed some devices in https://broadband.forum/broadband-in-india/70989-need-info-isp-plz-reply/2/#post526093 :)

This may also be of interest: Building a wisp - Ubiquiti Wiki Although it suggests using the M5, I might suggest you use the M2 instead, because the CPEs required to connect to the M5 cost about US$100 each and unless you're willing to bear that cost then it may be unfeasible for you.

If you use the M2, the clients won't need a CPE (any laptop or phone with wifi should work) and they can still be secured, thus adhering to the relevant laws.

Also, get someone involved with a business degree. And before you buy ANYTHING, make sure you know you're going to have some customers - unfortunately, it's not a case of "build it and they will come".
 

Back