Let me just take this as two points, where I'll address some of what you raise individually.1) The US Market:The majority of your argument seems to be based on internet viewership - i.e. downloads, torrents, live streams etc. A bit of a funny argument really - the live streams used, as I'm sure you are aware are of ESPN, SA Sport (South Africa) etc. People don't pay for these streams, they are basically redistributed through legally ambiguous p2p networks. HOW ON EARTH IS THIS A REVENUE FLOW FOR PEOPLE LIKE SETANTA WHO HAVE TAKEN THEIR CHANNELS TO THE UNITED STATES? It isn't. I'm afraid you don't really understand american immigrant communities, if you believe they sit and spend their evenings watching football (urr.. sacker).. It's all about getting absorbed into the american way of life - watching ball games and basketball, and the all important NFL. And, immigrant communities do have a very high rate of weekend employment. It's not just in the poorer communities either (i.e. Mexicans!) but also in prime-jobs, which tend to be financial sector related, particularly i-banking where there really is no off-time. You are arguing for mass popularity of a sport that is clearly not popular in the United States. If you're looking at forums as your point of departure, that's silly really: you don't have to watch football to talk about it! Atually sitting and watching 90 minutes of a sport that may finish 0-0, really isn't what americans like to do. this is simply a cultural thing. Every fact in the world will support my argument, while you're depending on theoretical notions in your head. If it was as popular as it is, the MLS would be marketed and hyped into being far, far, far bigger than it is.2) The Indian context.Firstly, are you actually aware of the fact that GOAL TV buys the vast majority of its content from Setanta? You seem mysteriously unaware of this fact.Secondly, it's a simple argument. Setanta can make money selling its rights to GOAL TV, if GOAL TV can make money selling it to consumers. Cut down the distribution chain, and you have Setanta selling its content directly. Not very different from any other commodity - brands are usually available well before their own distribution networks are setup, but eventually they are. As for what leagues are viable and what aren't: the EPL is because it's been extremely well sold. There is nothing endemic that makes it so much better than other leagues. Those who watch La Liga will tell you just how exciting that league is. The Bundesliga has taken big strides over the last few seasons. And officially the most competitive league in Europe: The Championship is actually very marketable today. People watch what is sold to them. Quality content and broadcasts will open up further markets in years to come. To deny this is to deny what has already happened over the last 10 years. And to bring up the American example is a bit silly, because it is actually a great illustration of the possibilities that lie ahead. If any football channels are viable, the quality ones are certainly more viable. Bidding for the EPL will be more comptitive in 2009/10 when the rights are up for sale again, and it will no longer be one channel dominated as it has been in the past. The same holds true for La Liga, Bundsliga and Champions League rights (which in case you haven't noticed are now with ten/zee). The fact that the cost of production remains unaltered and the quality of content is so high for the likes of Setanta, Eurosport, etc. will only give them a lot more weight to throw around in years to come. ESPN Star is here to stay thanks to Rupbert Murdoch, but as countries as forced to get rid of protectionist TV policies, the growth of DTH and PPV platforms will lead to the sruvival of quality broadcasters only, and ultimately the globalization of TV channels. I see nothing in your post that argues against this fundamental point.With "Asia" increasingly being see as one region (EPL rights for example, are sold for Asia as a whole, not India individually) - the process may happena lot sooner than you seem to think.
Tata Sky DTH: For All Football Lovers!
- Thread starter hitman050
- Start date
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DishTV is not a better alternative as they have poor customer support & service. Also there picture quality is inferior in comparison. So there is no choice for existing Tsky subscribers. Grin & bear it. :wall:
if you were at any customer care i think you would have been lazy , dull. b'coz every CC will have some technical things to look after. it is not just a paper work. they need to rectify the problems technically. so in the process it will take time. every DTH or Mobile provider's CC are the same.
Dishtv's CC has not improved as they had given some Dish Care Centers to look after the things and also now the new boxes are getting activated within 30mins of putting them. and now they are comign with 7 days FREE View for every new customer so that they start viewing as soon as they buy the STB . this is something good.:thumbsup: b'coz buying it and keep it until the channels are activated will turn the mood off for any subscriber, so now dishtv had given then 7 days pre activated cards and boxes .
if you were at any customer care i think you would have been lazy , dull. b'coz every CC will have some technical things to look after. it is not just a paper work. they need to rectify the problems technically. so in the process it will take time. every DTH or Mobile provider's CC are the same.
Dishtv's CC has not improved as they had given some Dish Care Centers to look after the things and also now the new boxes are getting activated within 30mins of putting them. and now they are comign with 7 days FREE View for every new customer so that they start viewing as soon as they buy the STB . this is something good.:thumbsup: b'coz buying it and keep it until the channels are activated will turn the mood off for any subscriber, so now dishtv had given then 7 days pre activated cards and boxes .
This is the last time i am repeating this. You have clearly misunderstood my post and arguments.
1> Talking about the U.S market , i did not say at any point that the live streams are a source of revenue to setanta , you just made that up. As for some people paying to watch these streams , i was tempted to mention it but i assumed you knew that a lot of live streaming is actually illegal and as you mentioned , it results in a loss of revenue for the telecast rights holders. The problem is most of sports channels on sopcast and tvants are in chinese or arab languages and it is annoying to the english speaking users. So some of them do pay to get quality ( there are some people like you , who are not averse to paying a bit extra for quality!) english streams. I was talking about people who watch it for free via internet.
2> You argument about getting absorbed into american way of life is valid but are you telling me that it means we need to start following american sports when soccer is the number one game you love to watch ? Thats nonsensical.
You whole argument is confined to a certain time frame i.e the live coverage of matches. You still have nothing to say about people who might be recording matches so they watch it later or those who watch the re telecast or those who download torrents of the games so they can watch it as per their convenience.
3>You are arguing for mass popularity of a sport that is clearly not popular in the United States.
I'll quote a section of an article from; Soccer in U.S
The English and Spanish-language telecasts of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Championship Final combined to attract an estimated 16.9 million American viewers, comparable to the average viewership of the 2005 World Series of Major League Baseball.[8] Interestingly, Univision paid more than three times as much for the Spanish-language television rights for the 2010 and 2014 FIFA World Cups as Disney's ABC and ESPN paid for the English-language rights to the same competitions.[9] In 2007, the CONCACAF Gold Cup attracted record television viewership, and in the case of one particular group stage match, it was the most-watched primetime program on any network that night among 18-49 males. The Univision telecast of the final between USA and Mexico was the third-most watched Spanish-language program of all-time in the United States, beaten only by two FIFA World Cup finals matches.
Writers have speculated on why soccer is not as popular in the U.S. as it is in some other countries. Theories include that other sports cornered the market before professional soccer could prosper; that soccer is a \"foreign game\"; that Americans do not dominate the game; that there are too many draws; and that there is not enough scoring. The U.S. has many popular sports, including soccer, and this proliferation and abundance of choice is perhaps the biggest reason of all that soccer does not dominate the sporting landscape in the way it does in numerous other regions of the world.
More and more Americans, having played the game in their youth are now avid spectators, especially in the Northeast, the Mid-Atlantic, Texas, South Florida, and California. Most cities with Major League Soccer teams have large fan bases. In addition, as Latin American immigration is increasing overall in the entire nation, so is the popularity of soccer.
It clearly shows that you are living in the past.
Talking about the Indian context ;
1> I was indeed unaware of the fact that Goal Tv bought the rights from Setanta so it really puzzles me why they have not decided to go on their own in the sub continent. Perhaps they think that the market is not favourable at the moment ? Or it could be that they have signed a multi year deal with goal tv and are handicapped as i remember reading that goal tv had agreed a multi year deal with ten sports and zee.
2> To say that there's nothing endemic about EPL is ridiculous. It's is a well sold product ,yes , but the influx of foreign players like Zola , Bergkamp , Fabrizio Ravanelli, Eric Cantona , Theirry Henry etc has been a massive factor in epl being most popular across the world. The contribution of foreign managers like Arsene Wenger cannot be ignored in this epl revolution. The atmosphere and passion of english football and it being fast paced and a bit physical is another reason for it being such a favorite thing. La liga is a lot more technical than epl and serie a but when it comes to viewership across the world , epl beats them hands down.
Oh and btw the Championship is not popular because it is sold well it is popular because the clubs have massive support in passionate fans. If you look at the quality of football , it's really poor as it is a lot physical and long ball stuff. The average attendance of a Championship game was higher than an epl game last season. The qualifying play offs are incredible every season. It is sold well because it is popular.
3> I never said that i was against the entry of any foreign sports channel in india , it was your imagination to suit your argument. Show me an instance where i said that. The whole point was to discuss whether a football channel was sensible or not in the present scenario and i put my arguments accordingly.
It would be great if setanta sports did come to India coz as you say their coverage and programming quality would be far better than zee sports which is pathetic and better than TenSports though i do think that tensports's programming and transmission quality is good but still no match for espnstar. But i resented the fact that they could only show a single champion's league match as against two , espnstar showed.
I have no idea if Setanta will join the bidding for the next epl rights but even if they did they do not stand a chance against Rupert Murdoch's ESPNSTAR. The only reason Setanta , BBC and ITV got a part of the telcast rights from this season is because the premier league association wanted to break the monopoly of the Rupert Murdoch's SKY. Financially speaking MurDoch's sports association are on a completely different level and they will always be in a driving seat for the telecast rights.
I would simply love it, if as you say eventually only quality broadcasters survive but sadly it won't happen because tossers like Zee have so much money that they can outbid espnstar for football rights and that would be a disaster if it were to happen.Now after joining with TenSports they are even more stronger than before and you can't discount the fact that they could win EPL rights in future. Imagine zee sports showing EPL , it's a scary thought. The process has already started with Ten and Zee winning the champions's league rights.
1> Talking about the U.S market , i did not say at any point that the live streams are a source of revenue to setanta , you just made that up. As for some people paying to watch these streams , i was tempted to mention it but i assumed you knew that a lot of live streaming is actually illegal and as you mentioned , it results in a loss of revenue for the telecast rights holders. The problem is most of sports channels on sopcast and tvants are in chinese or arab languages and it is annoying to the english speaking users. So some of them do pay to get quality ( there are some people like you , who are not averse to paying a bit extra for quality!) english streams. I was talking about people who watch it for free via internet.
2> You argument about getting absorbed into american way of life is valid but are you telling me that it means we need to start following american sports when soccer is the number one game you love to watch ? Thats nonsensical.
You whole argument is confined to a certain time frame i.e the live coverage of matches. You still have nothing to say about people who might be recording matches so they watch it later or those who watch the re telecast or those who download torrents of the games so they can watch it as per their convenience.
3>You are arguing for mass popularity of a sport that is clearly not popular in the United States.
I'll quote a section of an article from; Soccer in U.S
The English and Spanish-language telecasts of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Championship Final combined to attract an estimated 16.9 million American viewers, comparable to the average viewership of the 2005 World Series of Major League Baseball.[8] Interestingly, Univision paid more than three times as much for the Spanish-language television rights for the 2010 and 2014 FIFA World Cups as Disney's ABC and ESPN paid for the English-language rights to the same competitions.[9] In 2007, the CONCACAF Gold Cup attracted record television viewership, and in the case of one particular group stage match, it was the most-watched primetime program on any network that night among 18-49 males. The Univision telecast of the final between USA and Mexico was the third-most watched Spanish-language program of all-time in the United States, beaten only by two FIFA World Cup finals matches.
Writers have speculated on why soccer is not as popular in the U.S. as it is in some other countries. Theories include that other sports cornered the market before professional soccer could prosper; that soccer is a \"foreign game\"; that Americans do not dominate the game; that there are too many draws; and that there is not enough scoring. The U.S. has many popular sports, including soccer, and this proliferation and abundance of choice is perhaps the biggest reason of all that soccer does not dominate the sporting landscape in the way it does in numerous other regions of the world.
More and more Americans, having played the game in their youth are now avid spectators, especially in the Northeast, the Mid-Atlantic, Texas, South Florida, and California. Most cities with Major League Soccer teams have large fan bases. In addition, as Latin American immigration is increasing overall in the entire nation, so is the popularity of soccer.
It clearly shows that you are living in the past.
Talking about the Indian context ;
1> I was indeed unaware of the fact that Goal Tv bought the rights from Setanta so it really puzzles me why they have not decided to go on their own in the sub continent. Perhaps they think that the market is not favourable at the moment ? Or it could be that they have signed a multi year deal with goal tv and are handicapped as i remember reading that goal tv had agreed a multi year deal with ten sports and zee.
2> To say that there's nothing endemic about EPL is ridiculous. It's is a well sold product ,yes , but the influx of foreign players like Zola , Bergkamp , Fabrizio Ravanelli, Eric Cantona , Theirry Henry etc has been a massive factor in epl being most popular across the world. The contribution of foreign managers like Arsene Wenger cannot be ignored in this epl revolution. The atmosphere and passion of english football and it being fast paced and a bit physical is another reason for it being such a favorite thing. La liga is a lot more technical than epl and serie a but when it comes to viewership across the world , epl beats them hands down.
Oh and btw the Championship is not popular because it is sold well it is popular because the clubs have massive support in passionate fans. If you look at the quality of football , it's really poor as it is a lot physical and long ball stuff. The average attendance of a Championship game was higher than an epl game last season. The qualifying play offs are incredible every season. It is sold well because it is popular.
3> I never said that i was against the entry of any foreign sports channel in india , it was your imagination to suit your argument. Show me an instance where i said that. The whole point was to discuss whether a football channel was sensible or not in the present scenario and i put my arguments accordingly.
It would be great if setanta sports did come to India coz as you say their coverage and programming quality would be far better than zee sports which is pathetic and better than TenSports though i do think that tensports's programming and transmission quality is good but still no match for espnstar. But i resented the fact that they could only show a single champion's league match as against two , espnstar showed.
I have no idea if Setanta will join the bidding for the next epl rights but even if they did they do not stand a chance against Rupert Murdoch's ESPNSTAR. The only reason Setanta , BBC and ITV got a part of the telcast rights from this season is because the premier league association wanted to break the monopoly of the Rupert Murdoch's SKY. Financially speaking MurDoch's sports association are on a completely different level and they will always be in a driving seat for the telecast rights.
I would simply love it, if as you say eventually only quality broadcasters survive but sadly it won't happen because tossers like Zee have so much money that they can outbid espnstar for football rights and that would be a disaster if it were to happen.Now after joining with TenSports they are even more stronger than before and you can't discount the fact that they could win EPL rights in future. Imagine zee sports showing EPL , it's a scary thought. The process has already started with Ten and Zee winning the champions's league rights.
jjvj , i am a football fanatic and i guess eidur22 is too. If we were not interested in football we would not be talking so deep about issues surrounding it. Anyways i do agree that our discussion has gone a bit off topic and we are no way near than when we started. So it's in the best interest for both of us to agree to disagree and move on. eidur22 , apologies if any of my comments have been offending but it's in the heat of the moment like they say in football.
maahkaal, i don't think we're actually as far off in our conception of things as I first thought. I'm not trying to argue that there is no problem with the globalization of content today. I somewhat understand why the substandard gob exists, and certainly while we have DTH providers like Sky which is run by a bunch of incompetent baboos who belong to a different century, there really is limited scope for the explosion of global content on our TV screens. BUT, what I am saying is that it is viable, based on purely economic parameters.Enough of that, though. Let's take on whether leagues outside of the EPL can do it. I think that's an interesting one.The EPL: when I said there's nothing endemic about it, I meant this in a historical context. The EPL is not better supported than the Bundesliga for example (largest crowds in Europe) and is not any more exciting than the Bundesliga or La Liga.Personally, I think La Liga has been piss poor when it comes to marketing. I mean if you look at the league itself - it's absolutely fascinating. Crowds in the UK are fun, no doubt: but Spain is the definition of political football. Huge political rivalries right across the footballing map. It's also a league where the big bucks and silky skills are mixed with clubs that do it the "right way". Till a couple of years ago, nobody could possibly have argued against the superior quality of La Liga (well anyone who knew what they were talking about any way). Things have changed a bit with the 2.1 billion quid deal, BUT I do believe La Liga could pump in nearly as much cash if they started to sell their league that little bit better.Bundesliga has made great strides. All it really needs is quality coverage. The media has made it all possible for the EPL - 15 years ago, British football was in complete crisis after Heysel and Hillsborough a few years apart. So, I do think at least Bundesliga and La LIga have the ingredients of a product that can be marketed, sold and further improved to rival the Premiership.PS: Your attendance figures on the CHampionship v Premiership are wrong. Simply wrong! But it is a very exciting league that again is undersold. One live game a week, wtf!??! Shame that Zee doesn't bother with the league games anymore, either.
Vivek Sharma
INDIAN
Well yeah i was wrong about the Championship attendance figures but i remember it being discussed on Football Focus quite a few times and they did mention something about it having more attendance than epl. A point in relation being the rising ticket prices in EPL. Obviously the top four clubs were always going to have full houses but it was more of a problem as far as mid table clubs and clubs in the bottom half were concerned. Whereas in the championship , the attendance was pretty much consistent for all the clubs.