Expectations and Feedback for Hayai Broadband

[cst1992]

No, talking about different users on the same network. If one guy accesses the video then it will come from whereever, but after that it should come from our cache of the same.

But there should be a limitation to this... you cannot cache the whole internet.. can you? - downloading the internet?!??![/URL]
however, this video has a bug. At 41.2 KB/sec, the estimated bar should show some data saved. But it is frozen at 14 kb.

 

[Sushubh]

i remember the time when i was with a cable based internet access. the guy had some caching mechanism at his place. it was working so well... that web pages that i was trying to view were like 3-4 days old. that was the time when a lot of websites had static pages. and well the entire system was painful. i had to take him to another user's place who had a different ISP to show him that the web pages i was getting on his net connection were outdated. he was like... i cannot disable the cache as it saves bandwidth costing for me. i was like *******... you still charge me per GB of data transfer.

 

[mgcarley]

But there should be a limitation to this... you cannot cache the whole internet.. can you? - downloading the internet?!??![/URL]
however, this video has a bug. At 41.2 KB/sec, the estimated bar should show some data saved. But it is frozen at 14 kb.

LOL. Of course we can't cache the whole Internet. But we can cache parts of it and if we have equipment from various CDNs sitting in our network then at least the most popular sites should be relatively fast.

i remember the time when i was with a cable based internet access. the guy had some caching mechanism at his place. it was working so well... that web pages that i was trying to view were like 3-4 days old. that was the time when a lot of websites had static pages. and well the entire system was painful.

i had to take him to another user's place who had a different ISP to show him that the web pages i was getting on his net connection were outdated. he was like... i cannot disable the cache as it saves bandwidth costing for me. i was like *******... you still charge me per GB of data transfer.

I think dynamic caching has probably improved somewhat since that time.

 

[acc1444]

Mg, you are telling that where fiber installation is not possible. At there, connectivity will be given through wimax works on licensed channel. So, I think wireless connectivity is not convenient for VOIP, online gaming and video streaming whether it works on licensed/free channel as per my experience with exicisting wimax companies included local internet companies and tata vsnl. & also wireless CPEs are costly that is why licensed wimax is very costly in india. They should import devices from outside of india. Did you make provision that user can use VOIP, online gaming and video streaming like fiber based connectivity???????

 

[mgcarley]

Mg, you are telling that where fiber installation is not possible. At there, connectivity will be given through wimax works on licensed channel.

Yes.

So, I think wireless connectivity is not convenient for VOIP, online gaming and video streaming whether it works on licensed/free channel as per my experience with exicisting wimax companies included local internet companies and tata vsnl. & also wireless CPEs are costly that is why licensed wimax is very costly in india.

I use VOIP on my 3G mobile here in NZ all the time, and whether it's due to low population or something else, all I'm saying is that it *can* be done under the right circumstances. NZ doesn't really have WiMax but the companies that are providing such wireless services are doing OK by VOIP, since most of them offer dual-play phone services, same as the wired companies.

They should import devices from outside of india.

Our wireless gear is being provided either by Alcatel-Lucent (France) or Nokia-Siemens (Finland) - probably the former, since that would allow us to operate the entire wired/wireless network on a single platform.

You can also take solace in that we have a very low number of users per wireless base-station - so that in combination with the restrictions on the amount of data transfer should help keep a high enough quality of service that you can use VOIP.

Did you make provision that user can use VOIP, online gaming and video streaming like fiber based connectivity???????

What can be done is that VOIP packets can be given a higher QoS rating than say, P2P packets, which would mean that even if other users are using P2P on the network, your VOIP packets will take precedence over the P2P packets.

While I think wireless is a less than ideal medium, it should be sufficient for most VOIP applications, and this is one of the reasons why we're not having any kind of flat-rate/unlimited plan on wireless - because of the degraded experience and so forth (as I've been saying).

I should also note that we have successfully tested streaming video calling over VOIP on a Mumbai local train.

 

[acc1444]

Yes.



I use VOIP on my 3G mobile here in NZ all the time, and whether it's due to low population or something else, all I'm saying is that it *can* be done under the right circumstances. NZ doesn't really have WiMax but the companies that are providing such wireless services are doing OK by VOIP, since most of them offer dual-play phone services, same as the wired companies.



Our wireless gear is being provided either by Alcatel-Lucent (France) or Nokia-Siemens (Finland) - probably the former, since that would allow us to operate the entire wired/wireless network on a single platform.

You can also take solace in that we have a very low number of users per wireless base-station - so that in combination with the restrictions on the amount of data transfer should help keep a high enough quality of service that you can use VOIP.



What can be done is that VOIP packets can be given a higher QoS rating than say, P2P packets, which would mean that even if other users are using P2P on the network, your VOIP packets will take precedence over the P2P packets.

While I think wireless is a less than ideal medium, it should be sufficient for most VOIP applications, and this is one of the reasons why we're not having any kind of flat-rate/unlimited plan on wireless - because of the degraded experience and so forth (as I've been saying).

I should also note that we have successfully tested streaming video calling over VOIP on a Mumbai local train.
Ok. Sounds good that system looks capable of carrying high load. Will you tell me how much ping time did you find during testing in mumbai local time and what was the distance between receiver and BTS????
Normally on 3g network, telecom company can not assume fixed traffic. So how can you allot fix speed to each user? What will be the situation at the time of over load on particular BTS?
& I found low signal in iPhone 3g with bsnl 3g. & after sometime I was facing frequent disconnection and default gateway breaking. So, where is the problem from receiving end or sending one???

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

If you are talking about the same user on the same computer then it is already cached locally so there will be zero lag.

No, talking about different users on the same network. If one guy accesses the video then it will come from whereever, but after that it should come from our cache of the same.


No daddy cool. Mg is right. I am talking about different users. Youtube network is designed such that any user can access that video from nearest node if it is accessed by someone before. So, video buffering does not take too much time to load second time as much as it took before. So, youtube does not require to install server for continent or country. But user should be on same network.

I am not sure but I think video cache is delivered from ISP server.

 

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[mgcarley]

Ok. Sounds good that system looks capable of carrying high load. Will you tell me how much ping time did you find during testing in mumbai local time


To be honest, I didn't run any pingtests or actual speedtests but the stream seemed relatively smooth with little to no interruptions.

and what was the distance between receiver and BTS????

We were moving at the time, as trains usually do. So the distance would have varied.

Normally on 3g network, telecom company can not assume fixed traffic. So how can you allot fix speed to each user?

We don't assume a fixed speed to each user, but 1. We're not using a 3G network for our wireless service and 2. Our 8mbit/s average is based on mathematics only - customers extremely close to the BTS will naturally get higher speeds.

What will be the situation at the time of over load on particular BTS?

In that unlikely event, it would be time for us to install a second BTS in that area.

& I found low signal in iPhone 3g with bsnl 3g. & after sometime I was facing frequent disconnection and default gateway breaking. So, where is the problem from receiving end or sending one???

Many people have been complaining about iPhone slow speeds on many networks. It's also more prone to call drops compared to a number of other phones. I suspect a device problem but I could be wrong - I've never really considered the iPhone to be a very good device.

No daddy cool. Mg is right. I am talking about different users. Youtube network is designed such that any user can access that video from nearest node if it is accessed by someone before. So, video buffering does not take too much time to load second time as much as it took before. So, youtube does not require to install server for continent or country. But user should be on same network.

I am not sure but I think video cache is delivered from ISP server.

No, but you can peer with 1e100.net (Google's CDN) for better performance (math buffs will get the reason it's 1e100.net) - or buy bandwidth from someone who does.

My nearest Google and Youtube nodes are in Sydney.

C:\Users\Mathew Carley>tracert youtube.com

Tracing route to youtube-ui.l.google.com [66.102.11.136]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1

 

[acc1444]

We were moving at the time, as trains usually do. So the distance would have varied.

I know that distance will be varied. I am asking min distance to maximum.
We don't assume a fixed speed to each user, but 1. We're not using a 3G network for our wireless service and 2. Our 8mbit/s average is based on mathematics only - customers extremely close to the BTS will naturally get higher speeds.

No company allot fixed speed to each user unless they have fixed no of connected users on particular BTS. I think normally BTS can cover 15km of area. So, obviously nearest users will get higher speed than user who are connected far from BTS. & also nearest users traffic give bad performance to far connected USERS. How many chances of interfering to your network by other companies' network?/ because now, tata and even reliance are removed cable system from some areas where there are small numbers of users and they are migrated to wimax connection. & I have not heard from any company's technician about solution of interference of each other's network even they have own bought frequency.
So, according to me, wimax technology needs some advancement to serve stable and committed speed connectivity.
Did you have solution in your network? and which technology will you deploy in wireless ??? & I think it can be eliminated at some instant by using high power device at both ends.

Many people have been complaining about iPhone slow speeds on many networks. It's also more prone to call drops compared to a number of other phones. I suspect a device problem but I could be wrong - I've never really considered the iPhone to be a very good device.
Yes, I also heard that issue on the internet but Apple denied to save its reputation. Actually, according to some experts, there is problem with infineon chip problem installed in iphone 3g which is not capable to carry enough signal. I was not sure about it because I heard that 3g is launched in my state by BSNL only and others are very costly to afford. So, i can not test other companies' 3g network with iphone and I do not have another 3g phone to test network. I have seen lots of mobile internet speed snaps of mobile except iphone 3g on the internet . They give great result.

 

[mgcarley]

I know that distance will be varied. I am asking min distance to maximum.

I don't know where the BTSes were located along the route that we were travelling. That would have to be something I would ask to the people who installed and maintain them.

No company allot fixed speed to each user unless they have fixed no of connected users on particular BTS. I think normally BTS can cover 15km of area. So, obviously nearest users will get higher speed than user who are connected far from BTS. & also nearest users traffic give bad performance to far connected USERS.

Correct, but if the connection cannot sustain a certain speed (3mbit/s) we are considering that user to be "out of range" and would not provide them with service.

How many chances of interfering to your network by other companies' network?/ because now, tata and even reliance are removed cable system from some areas where there are small numbers of users and they are migrated to wimax connection. & I have not heard from any company's technician about solution of interference of each other's network even they have own bought frequency.

This would be something for the technical guys who deal with the wireless side - I'll have to ask.

So, according to me, wimax technology needs some advancement to serve stable and committed speed connectivity.

We're not committing speeds at all - we have standards as to how the connection should perform and if the jitter/ping is too high and the sustained transfer rate is too low, we won't allow the connection to that area until we install a BTS there.

Did you have solution in your network? and which technology will you deploy in wireless ??? & I think it can be eliminated at some instant by using high power device at both ends.

There are legal limits to the amount of output the BTS is allowed to have, but we should be on different frequencies altogether. This is something for the technical guys anyway. I can tell you anything about the fiber network because I practically designed the thing (well, I speced it out and the actual designing was done by someone else) but when it comes to wireless I'm not as clued in - while I spec'd what it should be able to do, for the most part it was more of an acquisition than something we started building from scratch.

Yes, I also heard that issue on the internet but Apple denied to save its reputation. Actually, according to some experts, there is problem with infineon chip problem installed in iPhone 3g which is not capable to carry enough signal. I was not sure about it because I heard that 3g is launched in my state by BSNL only and others are very costly to afford. So, i can not test other companies' 3g network with iphone and I do not have another 3g phone to test network. I have seen lots of mobile internet speed snaps of mobile except iphone 3g on the internet . They give great result.

In which case maybe find a friend with a 3G device and put your SIM card in his phone.

@ acc1444 Buy a SE 3G enabled, Sony's r quite good and reliable.

I compared the performance of both Nokia and SONY ERSCSON in wifi, And SE beats the nokia easily.

Now what i say is dump that iphone of urs, or better sell it 4 good rate and buy an Xperia or any other 3G phone of SE.

Heh. Sony is a bad word in my vocab. Two brands I will never buy again are Sony and Acer.

 

[acc1444]

What if some1 finds a way to HACK HAYAI's speed, HACK 4 the LIMIT set by HAYAI like 200 GB etc and posts in forums.
So what will HAYAI do in this case????

Sorry to answer even though I am not a part of hayai.
This could not be happen unless there is a fault from server side. Normally, company buys professional software like airtel & tikona whose security systems are designed by inventum. So, these types of security systems test their software at last level of hacking and even their softwares are designed such that no one can do anything without log into the software.
I do not know about hayai but it may be hacked if hayai is designed by own self and not tested very well.
Actually, in the past, this type of hacking problem is not happened with any company. Server fault or server downtime is another matter in this case.
You will get better answer from mg.

---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 PM ----------

There are legal limits to the amount of output the BTS is allowed to have, but we should be on different frequencies altogether. This is something for the technical guys anyway. I can tell you anything about the fiber network because I practically designed the thing (well, I speced it out and the actual designing was done by someone else) but when it comes to wireless I'm not as clued in - while I spec'd what it should be able to do, for the most part it was more of an acquisition than something we started building from scratch.

It is ok if you do not know the distance. Actually I am asking because cable installation is never done in my area before. After launching hayai, I am guessing that I should get connectivity through wireless if I want to take. Tata was installed a cable before but due to local cable operator was not agree with them. They cut tata cable and Airtel is not deployed here yet. There is no chance of getting fiber connectivity for me unless you get the permission.

About wimax, I am using wimax connectivity right now from local company, spidigo but I am facing some breaking with their connectivity & they have no solution of that because it works on free channels. Therefore, I was asking about to get solution which you may use in your system. With the experience, I realized that it can be solved by using high power device at both ends.
Let me know whenever you get the information about this.

Thanks mg.

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 PM ----------

We're not committing speeds at all - we have standards as to how the connection should perform and if the jitter/ping is too high and the sustained transfer rate is too low, we won't allow the connection to that area until we install a BTS there.

Yes, you are right. Company wants to be strict about feasibility regading their connectivity to avoid problems but as per my experience with existing company, I have taken connection from three different companies even though it was no feasibility. After installing it at my home, I faced lots of problem. So, I companied a lot to companies authority. Then, it comes out that sales persons gave connection to complete their targets even though requests were rejected by technical team. Sales persons never care about companies' reputation. They keep money in the targets.